Some minor opinions

[orange]

Re: Some minor opinions

Originally posted by donegeal
I believe the money I make belongs to me and my family, not some governmental stooge with a bad comb-over who wants to give it away to crack addicts for squirting out babies.

If you and others don't pay taxes to the government it ceases to function as we know it, and you are no longer protected by state sponsored institutions like the military or police. In my opinion, taxes are the price that government charges for its services, and it can do what it wants with what it doesn't use. If that means giving money to rehabilitate a drug addict, so be it. Of course, I'd rather see us legalize drugs and use the profits to do this, but I won't argue the current use of the money. I also think this point is highly exaggerated. You've provided crack addicts with little or no money.

I believe they are called the Boy Scouts for a reason, that is why there are no girls allowed. Girls belong in the Girl Scouts!

In 1967, Den Mothers became Den Leaders as men were also allowed to lead Dens. The first women were appointed to the national Cub Scout Committee in 1969. And by 1973, women were allowed to serve in all Pack positions except Cubmaster and Webelos Den Leader and their assistants. In 1976 women Cubmasters were permitted and in 1988 women were allowed to be Webelos Den Leaders, effectively removing all gender requirements for adult leadership roles in Cub Scouting.

Females already participated in Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts as Den Mothers and Den Leaders...then...

It was not until 1969 that girls were eligible to participate as non-registered Explorer Scouts, BSA’s program for the “older boy” (15-21). By 1971, Girls were eligible to register as full fledged Explorer Scouts. But not as Cub Scouts or Boy Scouts.

Here BSA let them become Explorer Scouts. Now, why couldn't they also have age brackets for the younger girls?

Keep in mind, "Girl Scouts" (GSUSA) and "Boy Scouts" (BSA) are not the same organization, only for different genders. They do different things. What if a girl isn't interested in selling cookies, going on field trips, or playing traditionally female sports. What if they want to hike row and explore? It's not like BSA is completely against female participants in their program...only for the 9-14 age group...why?

I think that if you feel homosexuality is wrong, it is not a phobia, it is an opinion.

If that is your opinion, fine. But treating homosexuals as second class citizens, denying them the rights you enjoy, or discriminating against them is wrong.

I don't think being a minority makes you a victim of anything except numbers.

Tell that to Japanese during WWII, or Middle Eastern Immigrants after 9/11.

The only things I can think of that are truly discriminatory are things like the United Negro College Fund, Jet Magazine, Black Entertainment Television, and Miss Black America. Try to have things like the United Caucasian College Fund, Cloud Magazine, White Entertainment Television, or Miss White America and see what happens. Jesse Jackson will be knocking down your door.

As stated, I agree that this is a problem...

I have the right "NOT" to be tolerant of others because they are different, weird, or tick me off.

Fine, then we have the right to label you a bigot for judging people as a group and not as individuals. BIGOT! BIGOT BIGOT BIGOT!

When 70% of the people who get arrested are black, in cities where 70% of the population is black, thats not racial profiling, it is the law of statistics.

Che can do a better job here than I can...but that's not the case.

I know what sex is, and there are not varying degrees of it. If I received sex from one of my subordinates in my office, it wouldn't be a private matter or my personal business. I would be "FIRED" immediately!

In almost all cases I can think of, inter-office relations are not forbidden, only discouraged. Unless it was being done with some degree of quid-pro-quo, I don't see how you'd be fired for it. Furthermore, it's not your business or the business of the congress what Clinton does with little willie, as long as it's not illegal.

I believe that if you are selling me a milk shake, a pack of cigarettes, a newspaper or a hotel room, you must do it in English! As a matter of fact, if you want to be an American citizen you should have to speak English! My father and grandfather shouldn't have to die in vain so you can leave the countries you were born in to come over and disrespect ours.

It is not disrespectful to speak a different language in this country. Your Father and Grandfather didn't die in vain, and when their ancestors came here, they may not have spoken English either. People come, they have children, and their children assimilate into the culture and language bringing aspects of their own in. That's America - a big ol' melting pot. Come on in, the diversity's fine. If you don't like it, get the hell out.

I think the police should have every right to shoot your sorry ass if you threaten them after they tell you to stop. If you can't understand the word "freeze" or "stop" in English, see the above lines.

Um...since when do police not have the right to act in self defense?

I feel much safer letting a machine with no political affiliation recount votes when needed.

Humans make machines. Human error can lead to machine error. Don't you think? If this is in reference to Dade County, there was a larger issue, mainly with votes being lost, and votes being plaecd incorrectly.
But I'm sure you'll resort to the old "if they're too dumb to read a ballot, they shouldn't be voting" rhetoric, so I'll save us some time and fire back with "We abolished competency tests for suffrage long ago. "

I don't think just because you were not born in this country, you are qualified for any special loan programs, government sponsored bank loans or tax breaks, etc., so you can open a hotel, coffee shop, trinket store, or any other business. We did not go to the aid of certain foreign countries and risk our lives in wars to defend their freedoms so that decades later they could come over here and tell us our constitution is a living document and open to their interpretations.

Example?

I don't hate the rich. I don't pity the poor.

I hope, sir, that you never have to know what it is to be truly poor.

I know wrestling is fake, but so are movies and television, and that doesn't stop you from watching them.

Ok, I agree on two points...a fellow fan here.

I think Bill Gates has every right to keep every penny he made and continue to make more. If it ticks you off, go and invent the next operating system that's better and put your name on the building. Ask your buddy that invented the Internet to help you.

What if he makes that money illegally or unethically? Don't you care about monopolies? What if he buys up all competition and charges unbelievable prices? It's been done before, it's dangerous...isn't the spirit of America all about competition and choice?

And the quote is wrong. I can give you the actual internet quote if you really want it. Damn, the man isn't even running for office anymore...would you give him a break? Bush has a whole fun box of misquotes...should we start dishing those out?

It doesn't take a whole village to raise a child right, but it does take a parent to stand up to the kid and smack their little ass' when necessary and say "NO".

say no to what?

I think tattoos and piercing are fine if you want them, but please don't pretend they are a political statement. And Please stay home until that new lip ring heals, I don't want to look at your ugly infected mouth as you serve me fries!

So don't buy your fast food there if it bothers you. Write a note and complain. And for some people they are a political statement. What's it to you?

I am sick of "Political Correctness" and of all the suck ups that go along with it. I know a lot of black people, and not a single one of them was born in Africa, so how can they be "African-Americans"? Besides, Africa is a continent. I don't go around saying I am a European-American because my great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather was from Europe. I am proud to be from America and nowhere else.

Mainly used for census purposes. Most black people aren't offended by 'black'. "N*****" offends most of them though, so might wanna watch that one.

[orange]

Originally posted by donegeal
Orange: I look forward to hearing your agruements. I love a good debate, however, I am going to stick around (I have even put the OT forum in my control panel) and I dout you will liberalize me. By definition, it would be easier to make a liberal a conservative than to liberalize a conservative (as liberals are more open to ideas).

Welcome aboard. You'll find good company, we have a lot of conservatives around too...but us liberals aren't so bad either

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by donegeal
Rufus: Nice catch on the contradiction about not being told who to hire and who not to with my money. I guess my argument to that is the liberalization line needs to be drawn somewhere. Government rules and regulation need to be inplace or it would be anarchy, which isn't good for civilization.

So non-English-speaking Slurpee-servers are your idea of anarchy? You need to hop on a plane and get your sheltered ass to, say, Belarus, pronto. When you get back, you'll be so happy just to see a fully functioning 7-11 that you'll break down and cry like a baby.

Seriously, Donegeal, you seem like a reasonable (if misguided ) guy, and you're getting plenty of debate, so I'll just add this: statistically, welfare recipients don't abuse substances at a rate more than about 1% greater than the population as a whole, and with some substancs (e.g.,alcohol),their abuse rate is actually lower. Moreover, the vast majority of recipients don't have kids while on welfare; many do already have kids when they go on welfare, and that's one of the reasons they end up there -- because we, as a society, have no sensible plan for dealing with disadvantaged children. In a choice between helping those mothers (the liberal solution) and chastising them for making a decision they cannot undo (the conservative solution), I'll take helping every time. And if doing the right thing means occasionally having to do it for the wrong sort of people, so be it.

[orange]

great post Rufus

[Kropotkin]

[FrustratedPoet]

On a point of pure semantics, I'll agree with this:

I think that if you feel homosexuality is wrong, it is not a phobia, it is an opinion.

Homophobia is technically a fear of gay people, not a dislike of them (although some people hate gays because they fear them).
However, since common usage overrides pure semantics (IMHO at least) then I think it's really a rather silly point to try and make.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by orange
great post Rufus

We'll save him from the dark side yet, orange.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by donegeal
I am not against taxation, but against welfare, as the later part of the line states. I have worked hard and had to make some difficult choices to get where I am in todays world and I don't care for loafers.

Well, I do alot of the disability exams in my locality. Would you call people who can't walk because of strokes, have limited endurance because of heart disease, are in constant pain from arthritic disease, have limited ability to stand due to diabetic foot ulcers, are retarded or schizophrenic loafers? Those are the type of people who get welfare. The Disability Determination Service has some very stringent guidelines concerning the evaluation of disability. You don't know anything about these regulations do you? So what value is your judgement?

Oh, and here this from the lips of someone who actually knows: substance abuse and alcoholism without the presence of some other superevening illness, such as depression or schizophrenia, or complication, such as alcoholic organic brain syndrome, are not covered by "welfare".

Children of impoverished families however are entitled to Aid to Dependent Children. Must the children suffer? If you're advocating for greater supervision of the parents whose kids get ADC in some circumstances I'd go along with that. Mind you that not child who gets put on ADC has addicts for parents. Sometimes a catastrophic expense, like little Billy's leukemia treatment or Dad's Cardiac bypass trigger intervention. Sometimes kids get put on ADC because Daddy broke Billy's arm and Mommy had to give up her job and take him and the other kids to live with Granny. Sometimes all the good jobs in the county go far away across the sea. Sometimes Mommy and/or Daddy have trouble getting or keepimng a job because they couldn't keep up with the other kids when they went to school.

These programs are available for everybody. Knock on wood that you won't ever have to use them yourself.

[loinburger]

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[Solly]

Good post Donegeal.

[FrustratedPoet]

Loin's was better.

[Solly]

I don't need his post though.

[FrustratedPoet]

Have you already seen his hot webcam then? Is that what made your manhood big?

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Hi donegeal? Ever experienced real hardship? Nope? Thought not. Bye!

[Donegeal]

...treating homosexuals as second class citizens, denying them the rights you enjoy, or discriminating against them is wrong.

Now who said that I said anything about treating them differently? I know plenty of homosexuals (and probably more than I think) and I treat them no differently than anyone else.

I have the right "NOT" to be tolerant of others because they are different, weird, or tick me off.

Fine, then we have the right to label you a bigot for judging people as a group and not as individuals.

I never said I judge people as a group, I only agree that it is wrong to tell people they CAN'T do it when they should be told that they SHOULDN'T do it.

BIGOT! BIGOT BIGOT BIGOT!

Please now Orange, try to stay civil. I haven't said, nor agreed with anything that makes me a bigot. And I certianly haven't run off at the mouth calling all liberals by their more colorful names. Additionally, if you are trying to turn me over the light-side (as Rufus referenced), name calling certianly isn't the way to do it (you booger! )

That's America - a big ol' melting pot. Come on in, the diversity's fine. If you don't like it, get the hell out.

Disliking the diversity is part of the diversity. Telling someone to get out because of it conflicts directly with its princeable.

But I'm sure you'll resort to the old "if they're too dumb to read a ballot, they shouldn't be voting" rhetoric, so I'll save us some time and fire back with "We abolished competency tests for suffrage long ago. "

Give me more credit than that sir (although, being rather new to the OT forum, you would have no reason to do so). As for suffrage competency test, yes they were abolished long ago and I agree that that is a good thing,but I would most like to have them back IF there was a possible standard to go on. As that would be impossible (or nearly so) it will never happen. (yes, I expect heat from this one )

What if he makes that money illegally or unethically? Don't you care about monopolies? What if he buys up all competition and charges unbelievable prices? It's been done before, it's dangerous...isn't the spirit of America all about competition and choice?

So America is all about competition and choice until someone has won the compitition? I don't know about you, but I got my entire computer system AND OS for just over $600. If he has such a monopoly on computers, why has the price gone down?
Thanks for the comments Orange. I hope we can continue.

Rufus:
I knew that some was going to make that arguement. Now don't be silly. A non-english speaking slurpee server is not my idea anarchy. It is just an example of one of the rules and regulations that I think should be in place in order to ensure that anarchy doesn't ensue.

Back to the welfare topic.

And if doing the right thing means occasionally having to do it for the wrong sort of people, so be it.

No, not so be it. Stop pushing to make everyone do what you think is right and go out there and actually help people. Stop saying "I support welfare." and thinking that you have done your good deed for the day and go help someone. In the case of the mothers that made bad choices, go help one (not just support their particular program). If they continue to make bad choices, then stop. If direct help isn't going to work, nothing will. The welfare program is an enabler and self-defeating.
On another note on the same subject, my job has a tendancy to have me deal with the people who do abuse welfare so I admit that my opinion my be skewd toward the negitive. However, it is an opinion and opinions are personal calls that can't be called right or wrong.

The only reason I left the comment about the police having the right to shoot when threatened leads to the reason I started to post here to begin with. About a week ago, a thread was started here about the police that shot the family dog. Now I don't want to get on the topic of that particular case (as I have not seen the video yet), but there was some comments made in that thread that just pissed me off to no end. The posts made by David Floyd were so absured that I was yelling at my monitor about them. So if you want to yell at someone for drawing more conservatives to the forum, let him know.