More evidence of American war crimes in Afghanistan?

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Actually, my "gross and insulting generalization" was inspired by MTG's comment.

Must have been an interesting time warp (tell me, were you surrounded by a sort of purple haze? since you posted your "gross and insulting generalization" two hours and 49 minutes before my first post in the thread.

[Spiffor]

Oops, sorry, it wasn't you but Sloww's quote :

Not particularly, but this is the same b.s. that's been circulated since the poor babies (my emphasis) have been detained.

Always get confused with these avatar flags

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by orange


And that makes it right?

Nothing makes it right. It is unfortunately inevitable, given the very long Afghan history of tribal warfare, predating "The Great Game" between the Imperial Russian and British empires in the 19th century, and even going back at least to the Afghan empire (when Afghanistan had seaports) a couple of centuries before that.

Given a historical mistreatment of prisoners, tribal cultures in which revenge is an important group and infividual concept, you don't have much to work with.

Add to that the fact that the NA leader Masoud was killed by al Qaeda suiciders in coordination with the last Taleban offensive, mass rapes and summary executions by the Taleban against Hezara, Uzbek and Taijik minorities when the Taleban recaptured territory held by the NA, and the fact that most Afghanis of any ethnicity have at least one close relative killed or maimed in the last twenty years fighting (most often by other Afghanis), and bloodlust and lust for revenge is going be essentially uncontrollable. Afghanistan is historically one of the war zones where anyone, on any side, least wants to be taken prisoner in a decisive fight.

Most often, historical Afghan tribal wars didn't get that out of hand, because once one side proved a point, the two sides negotiated some sort of tribute and went their separate ways. After the collapse of the Pashtun-Afghani empire, and the movement of Pashtun north, conquering other tribal areas, things became a lot more bitter and protracted, and set the stage for the current events.

If the Taleban (or any successor group) ever takes over those areas again, there will be hell to pay. Dostum's reputed to be a government unto himself in the areas he holds, and he's a notoriously dirty bastard, as are most of his troops.

[Kramerman]

Trolls are afraid of fire...

*straps on Grade A, American-made flame thrower*

EDIT: cause im an evil genocidal American!

[Gatekeeper]

I don't know about anyone else on this thread, but MtG sure knows how the hell to put into words what I can't at times because I'm so damn frustrated with it all.

All I can say in passing is that every nation has its blowhards, and every nation has its lobbies. In Europe, the labor unions appear to be quite strong. In America, the corporations are stronger, it seems. All it is is power projected from differing bases, nothing more.

Gatekeeper

[Chris 62]

I wonder why people's memories are so short.

This was brought up when it happened, over a year ago, it was investigated and found that there was no US involement.

Are some of you suggesting that Europe is so backward you get your news a year late?

[Shi Huangdi]

Originally posted by orange


And that makes it right?

The alleged victims of those massacres are of some of the purest evil the world has ever seen. They defended a system that made women so miserable they would often kill themselves with battery acid. While they haven't been as genocidal as some other regimes(although they killed off plenty of Shia and ethnic minorities), in terms of opression and freedoms denied to their own people these guys have to be champions. They basically disallowed people from having any life enjoyment at all, and they tortured those who tried too. The only form of "entertainment" Taliban Afghanistan allowed was public executions. Combine that with the Taliban's support of the murderous Al Qaeda network, I think you can find other people to be sympathetic for than Taliban soldiers.

[Bereta_Eder]

US defends murderers as always...
nothing's changed

[MikeH]

Originally posted by Gatekeeper Sorry, but that tends to make me really picky when it comes to allegations of rampant American abuse. You might get testy too, if your country were constantly under a verbal barrage.

Not really, I have my own country under a verbal barrage most of the time. I don't give a fvck if you criticise my country there are loads of things wrong with it. Same as any country.

[Gatekeeper]

MikeH:

I never said that criticism for some action (or inaction) wasn't unwarranted. But when it's day in and day out and a lot of it — unfortunately — consists of Paiktis' one-liners nowadays, it grows tiresome.

And I really don't believe that Britain takes as much flak as America does. Unless there's a whole bunch of it in the European press that I never hear about.

Gatekeeper

[Traianvs]

Well Gatekeeper, me and my friends always refer to Blair as Bush's little puppy or as the 55th state (or whatever, i'm not sure
how many staes you have).. So that says it all really: ppl here are not that positive about GB either, of course mostly because he's also a warmonger with simple and futile arguments

Originally posted by Arrian
Spiffor,

I certainly would do not hold such a simplistic view (Afgani = Taleban = Al Qaeda). But you're entitled to make broad, insulting (at least to me) generalizations if you want.

-Arrian

Well: I know it doesn't represent all the Americans, but I just do happen to often see Americans write, say or in any way express opinions such as this one that I do get the feeling that lots of people think like that. I know some dickhead racist that wishes to wipe out the entire arab world (unfortunately a friend of a friend) just based on the argument that they are muslim and must be destroyed... and he's not the only one I see/hear with that opinion (as a sidenote the guy is insanely smart, and he's Belgian )


Wernazuma III

some good points: It's good that things like this get in the media so they will be investigated... whenever there is a doubt such atrocities happen, i think an investigation is appropriate! that's what the opposition is for, to find flaws in the current government!