Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Why do people work?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Why do people work?

    It has always struck me as odd that we despite industrialization and huge advances in information processing still have to meet at a what is now called the work-place.
    One should think that with the increases automatization of production the demand for labor would decrease.
    However, the large majority in the Western world still does menial work and recieve pay for the effort. But what kind of work is it that the so-called tertiary or service sector actually does. A disproportiante amount of people make a living out of providing services to other people - often those being served percieve themselves as having superior status. This work is not productive, it only serves to inflate those being served with self-importance. What is essentially being traded between worker and the person being served is time. Apparently some people percieve themselves to have a greater right to time than others. They pay for extra time by making a transfer of money - the value of which is questionable were it not for the willingness of both parties to invest trust in it. Whence this trust comes from is perhaps controversial, but ultimately it has to do with power. See the giver can refuse to offer a transfer, but the taker can hardly refuse - else he be fired. The taker of money has transfered sovereignty to the employer - or the owner of his worktime. The employee is subservient to the company and must hand over the whole of the money tranfer to the employer (exempting tips where that applies). In exchange the employer gives that person the right to recieve money from the custumer, but otherwise the employee has not significantly gained anything, but investing his own person in the legitimacy of the money transfering process. To add hurt to insult the employee now takes away part of the money transfer, precisely because he was the one who invested the employee with the right to recieve the transfer. To my mind this is an unequal deal and it is slavery.

    Some might say - "yes, that is capitalism and it works."What I wish to know is what it works towards. The exchange in money for extra time has not given each individual more time - has it? To the contrary. All studies show that people are working for longer hours now - and more people are involved in providing work/time than ever before in the history of mankind - in relative terms even. So despite the fact that former generation's expenditure of time has provided adequately to the average household in all things material which are supposedly time saving, but are in reality not. Take the example of the dishwasher. In medieval times one person had one plate and when it was dirty he licked it clean. Now the mere indication of a spot of food on a plate will make any infrared-bespeckled housewife skyrocket through the air in neurotic terror. Mediaval Man wore the same shirt for three weeks on end and would never consider spending the amount of resources the western world spends on washing the color out of their clothes on a continual and habitual basis.
    So, if the created capital by the forceful exchange of time through money transfers has not led and will never lead to truly free society, where each individual is capable of choosing for himself what he chooses to spend his time on - then capitalist society is merely a ploy in which people agree willingly to rob eachother of time.
    Furthermore capitalist society twists this even further, by saying that the people who choose to invest time in creating capital - which in this day and age merely means surplus money supply - are allowed greater access to borrowing money because they are presumably more credit worthy. Credit worthy because they have agreed with the bank that the capital they have so conspiciosly accumulated can be laid down as security. This quite puts the banks in a fix since if the borrower is deemed not credit worthy despite his surplus money supply and his carefully husbanded capital - then clearly and logically the bank itself would not be considered credit worthy. But then again the bank is simply another service for the person who thinks his time is more valuable than the bank. The accumulation of time is then an expanding and dynamic process in that the more time you have the more you a capable of accumulating. From this follows that more and more people would logically have to transfer their time to the person who thinks his time is so valuable.
    Thus the money economy is simply a ploy whereby the socalled capitalists are able to feed on the surplus money supply and hand it over in exchange for ekstra time, made possible by the overall legitimization of this process in the media and the possessed governments. The need for this system is to satisfy the human need for dominance over its fellow man. Strange system in my oppinion - and it is not sufficiently productive for the whole of humanity for it to make a living.

  • #2
    We have a much higher standard of living today than, say, 50 years ago. To pay for it, we need to work longer. For society to provide this higher standard of living for a large majority of people, it requires people in that society to do more work too.
    I'm building a wagon! On some other part of the internets, obviously (but not that other site).

    Comment


    • #3
      time is money. you trade your time for money no matter what you do. the essence of capitialism. that basically covers the first 1/3 of your post.

      then you went into how we're overly clean, in terms of dirty dishes and clothes. personally, i'm not too caring about my dishes, and i stretch my laundry as long as i can, wearing jeans/shirts several times, and spraying febreeze on stanky laundry piles so the odor doesnt get too offensive. but we live in a society that scared us into this. it's like: CLEAN! OR YOU'LL GET DISEASED AND DIE". whatever. to quote george carlin "i never get sick. i have a healthy immune system because i swam in sewage when i was a kid and my body is prepared for that f*cking flu when it comes."

      your final point: people are tied up in making a living and providing for their family. thats fine for them. i'd like to make a difference, but i'm young and ignorant, and the weight of the world hasn't crushed my hopes and dreams yet. ideally, and here we delve into socialism, people would work purely for the advancement of the human race (or, their society, depending on how wide-scale a system it is), but we're not there yet.
      "I've lived too long with pain. I won't know who I am without it. We have to leave this place, I am almost happy here."
      - Ender, from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card

      Comment


      • #4
        In a capitalist society like the US, the people that control the means of production (i.e. the rich, corporations, industrialists, etc) hold everybody else hostage, and force them to work for their lives. People are slaves to the system.

        In a more socialist society, government (controlled by the people) provides for the people. Sure, people don't have to work as hard, but if they don't work hard enough, then they won't enjoy certain luxuries. People have more direct control of their quality of life, whereas in American capitalism, people work and work and work; and the rich reap the rewards. It's been that way for over a hundred years, and with conservatives and capitalists in control of government (instead of the people) it's going to remain that way.
        To us, it is the BEAST.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Skanky Burns
          We have a much higher standard of living today than, say, 50 years ago. To pay for it, we need to work longer. For society to provide this higher standard of living for a large majority of people, it requires people in that society to do more work too.

          Sorry but that's total utter tosh.

          Workers in every major economy work less hours now than they did 50 years ago (or even 25 years ago) and yet standards of living have soared:


          Average Annual Hours worked in 1975 & 2000:

          United States: 1850, 1840 (it was 2040 in 1950)
          Japan: 2110, 1810
          Germany: 1760, 1480
          France: 1860, 1590
          Britian: 1880, 1710
          Italy: 1770, 1620
          Canada: 1860, 1790


          Rise in GDP per head 1975-2000

          United States: 72%
          Japan: 107%
          Germany: 107%
          France: 69%
          Britian: 87%
          Italy: 104%
          Canada: 74%
          19th Century Liberal, 21st Century European

          Comment


          • #6
            People work to eat. If you don't work, you don't eat.
            People work hard to eat better food than the guy who just works.
            People work really hard to eat the best food, and lots of it.
            People exploit others to have seven course meals, served on silver platters, delivered by servents, every night.
            "Chegitz, still angry about the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991?
            You provide no source. You PROVIDE NOTHING! And yet you want to destroy capitalism.. you criminal..." - Fez

            "I was hoping for a Communist utopia that would last forever." - Imran Siddiqui

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by el freako
              Sorry but that's total utter tosh.

              Workers in every major economy work less hours now than they did 50 years ago (or even 25 years ago) and yet standards of living have soared:


              Average Annual Hours worked in 1975 & 2000:
              Per citizen or per worker? Frankly, the demise of the eight hour day leads me to believe your statistics either wrong or meaningless. Perhaps the reason why people seem to be working less hours now is because many are underemployed, and have to work multiple jobs to get by. Unemployment is also higher today than it was then.

              As far as the increase in GDP per head, that's a meaningless statistic when it comes to standard of living. Those on the very top make so much that it skews the whole system, even for those who are worse off.
              Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Sava
                People have more direct control of their quality of life, whereas in American capitalism, people work and work and work; and the rich reap the rewards. It's been that way for over a hundred years, and with conservatives and capitalists in control of government (instead of the people) it's going to remain that way.
                Sava, there are countless stories of poor immigrants who come to America and become rich and successful.
                I'm going to rub some stakes on my face and pour beer on my chest while I listen Guns'nRoses welcome to the jungle and watch porno. Lesbian porno.
                Supercitzen Pekka

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Kingof the Apes

                  Sava, there are countless stories of poor immigrants who come to America and become rich and successful.
                  thats because the countless*100 stories of immigrants comming to america and failing / sucking the welfare teet aren't as exciting or amazing.
                  "I've lived too long with pain. I won't know who I am without it. We have to leave this place, I am almost happy here."
                  - Ender, from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I am not really sure

                    Jon Miller
                    Jon Miller-
                    I AM.CANADIAN
                    GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      To my mind this is an unequal deal and it is slavery.


                      It ain't slavery if you choose to do it. And how would you have things be sold? Robots do not exist to sell goods. Would you work it on the honor system? Pick up what you need and then put the money in a tray by the door? Please.

                      And as stated, since Capitalism has existed the standard of living around the globe for those countries have SKYROCKETED! Would you rather work 60 hours a week in a log cabin with a few books, or work the same amount of time in a modern house with TVs, Computers, etc, etc. I know what I'd pick. We work in order to further improve our lot.

                      As far as the increase in GDP per head, that's a meaningless statistic when it comes to standard of living.




                      Seeing as the definition of 'standard of living' is GDP per capita, I find this statement hilarious.
                      “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                      - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by chegitz guevara
                        Per citizen or per worker?
                        Per worker.

                        Originally posted by chegitz guevara
                        Frankly, the demise of the eight hour day leads me to believe your statistics either wrong or meaningless.
                        What demise?, just because Americans have seen a negligable decline in hours since 1975 doesn't make the falls elsewhere any less meaningful - surely you of all people are aware that there is a world outside the US borders?
                        Are you sure you're not succumbing to the folly of 'any statistic that question's my beliefs must be wrong'?


                        Originally posted by chegitz guevara
                        Unemployment is also higher today than it was then.
                        Unemployment rate (using the ILO definition) 8.3% in 1975 & 4.0% in 2000, yup obviously a big rise there
                        19th Century Liberal, 21st Century European

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by el freako
                          Sorry but that's total utter tosh.

                          Workers in every major economy work less hours now than they did 50 years ago (or even 25 years ago) and yet standards of living have soared:
                          My comment was based upon Tripledoc's post, specifically:
                          All studies show that people are working for longer hours now


                          I must admit I didn't research it at all.
                          I'm building a wagon! On some other part of the internets, obviously (but not that other site).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Spend nine months getting out and the rest of your life TRYING to git back in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                            And he wants to know why we go to work

                            No secret here......................a piece of human flesh no bigger than your hand!!!!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              it is so bigger than my hand!
                              "Chegitz, still angry about the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991?
                              You provide no source. You PROVIDE NOTHING! And yet you want to destroy capitalism.. you criminal..." - Fez

                              "I was hoping for a Communist utopia that would last forever." - Imran Siddiqui

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X