Westerners as human shields in Iraq

[chequita guevara]

The picture of the five-year old is from 1991. Can you people read?

Those people are f*ck*ng brave. They're putting their lives on the line for what they believe in. How many here can say the same? I think it's misguided, but maybe if more people were like them, there wouldn't be any more wars.

[Az]

Those people are f*ck*ng brave.

yes.

They're putting their lives on the line for what they believe in.

yes.

How many here can say the same?

no

I think it's misguided,

yes

but maybe if more people were like them, there wouldn't be any more wars.

no.

[Inverse Icarus]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
The picture of the five-year old is from 1991. Can you people read?

Those people are f*ck*ng brave. They're putting their lives on the line for what they believe in. How many here can say the same? I think it's misguided, but maybe if more people were like them, there wouldn't be any more wars.

i think what they believe in is incredibly stupid. i wouldn't sacrifice myself for something so stupid.

tienemen square, now that was bravery. AND it was people IN A SOCIETY resisting, not people from HALF WAY AROUND THE WORLD resisting something that started NEXT DOOR TO THEM by going to THE MIDDLE OF IRAQISTAN

plus, if they think they're going to make a difference, they're morons.

lets see though che, what do i believe in that i am willing to die for... i believe in equality of all people, political, social, and economical. if my death could some how serve to either create, sustain, or enhanse such a society, i'd gladly step up, and i'd hope every citizen in such a society to have a similiar mindset.

[Provost Harrison]

Good on them. All I see is the sabre rattling of the west, itching to bomb Iraq into oblivion once more, and yet there is still no evidence of any weapons of mass destruction. Look, if the UN won't find them on the ground, the Air Forces of the west aren't going to find them in a f**king plane! It just takes the piss.

[Arrian]

I see this the same way Azazel does.

It's better than just whining about it, I'll say that: they've got balls (they've really got balls if they stick it out if a war does get underway and they start to get killed).

-Arrian

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by UberKruX
tienemen square, now that was bravery. AND it was people IN A SOCIETY resisting, not people from HALF WAY AROUND THE WORLD resisting something that started NEXT DOOR TO THEM by going to THE MIDDLE OF IRAQISTAN

lets see though che, what do i believe in that i am willing to die for... i believe in equality of all people, political, social, and economical. if my death could some how serve to either create, sustain, or enhanse such a society, i'd gladly step up, and i'd hope every citizen in such a society to have a similiar mindset.

First off, I'm willing to be these are religious people, so the probablity of their demise doesn't make their sacrifice as meaninless to them as it would to you or me. Since I know there's no afterlife, I would want my death to produce tangible results, I'd want to know it would actually help. Personally I think it's adventurism, but that doesn't mean it should be respected. They are will to die to protect others, and there's nothing nobler than that.

Second, it's well known that the deaths of others means nothing to our goverment. Civilians in Yugoslavia tried to act as human shields for their bridges and factories, and they were bombed and unmorned by the West. These people are hoping that the higher value that Westerners have on Westerners' lives will somehow either deter our governments from acting or inspire others in the West to stand up and resist our governments.

And I don't think that the students in Tienemen were all that brave, given that they were children of the elite. They though the state wouldn't hurt them, they were too well-connected. It's the workers of China who laid it on the line and paid for it in spades. It wasn't a student who stood in front of a tank, it was a daily worker. Most o the people executed following the massacre were workers, again, unmourned by the West.

[DinoDoc]

Most o the people executed following the massacre were workers, again, unmourned by the West.

How do you support that statement given all fo the bad press the regime has recieved as a result of the massacre?

[Arrian]

again, unmourned by the West.

I don't know about the rest of you assertions with respect to Tiennemen Square, but this one I think is unfair, Che.

A lot of people remmember what happened and believe me, the image of that guy (lowly worker, you say) standing in front of a column of Tanks is not one I will ever forget. If he was executed, I do indeed mourn for him.

-Arrian

[Bereta_Eder]

Hmmm, you would mourn about the poor chinese under their brutal dictatorship which is what the US policy is at too
but would you mourn about the dead children in Cambodia killed by your bombs? Or those in Afganistan?

Selective mourning is hypocricy especially if it fits all too well at your government's policies.

[Arrian]

I would mourn innocents killed by bombing anywhere. Who said anything about "selective mourning?"

-Arrian

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Lars-E
Would Bush kill Americans?
He would be persona non grata politically in the USA, if he did that.

Om Sept 11, Bush issued orders to shoot down the last of the four hijacked jets (the one the passengers fought back on and caused to crash) if necessary to prevent it from reaching a target. He got mostly praise here for that command decision. You just have no idea what you are dealing with in regard to USA resolve.

[axi]

Hundrends of Europeans (mostly Italians) did that last spring, in Palestine, to protect Arafat and Palestinian hospitals against the Israeli aggression. Their presence and witnessing was critical for saving many lives. The Palestinians said that they were deeply obliged to them for that service.

Hundrends of westerners (mostly Spanish and Americans) are also present in Chiapas, witnessing the paramilitary violence against the indian communities nad trying to thwart it where they can. They are welcomed by the Indians.

So why not go to Iraq and camp inside schools, water and sewage plants, hospitals, e.t.c.? If that will help save the infrastructure and many Iraqi lives, why not? The only problem I see is that the Americans are such cowards that they fight from a distance, using bombs and planes, unlike the IDF or the paramilitaries...

[Inverse Icarus]

why risk american lives when it is not required?

sorry if we dont go marching to our deaths like you "brave" europeans

[Pekka]

The way I see this is that these people are against war in general.. and they want publicity, and this is a stunt, but with a great price.
I think they are brave, but little stupid.
No, it won't stop war, it won't even slow it down, and they will get killed and it's their own fault. But still I think they're quite brave, and at least they're ready to die for something they believe in.. even if other people won't give them credit for it.

[Pekka]

Plus I don't see what the problem would be at all. I'd give good personal warning to my citizens that bombs are on the way, get the hell out. If they wanna die, then sure. I don't think it's any worse, innocent civilians ARE going to die anyway, what's a few youngsters in it anyway. Sure they get few headlines maybe, but that's all there is to it, innocents are innocents no matter what nationality, and if they WANT to be innocent victims, then they're not victims but on a suicide mission. And it's their own fault. Local civilians won't have the chance to flee maybe, and they'll die because they happen to live there. Now that's tough. If someone spends money to go and die there, why couldn't he just save little bit more money and try to bring people from there to his home, thus actually saving lives than just adding to the inevitable body count. He could still protest, and if he gest few families out from the danger zones back to his country and home, I'll bet he gets even more headlines and encourages maybe just few people to do the same.