Huge terract in downtown Tel-Aviv. Scores dead

[Edan]

Originally posted by Sonic
Israel in fact never offered to free East Jerusalem or if offered, imidietly reppelled their offers...

Your source for this?

Keep in mind, Dennis Ross was an important part of the peace negotiations. If anyone would know what the proposals were, he would.

The final American Proposal, which made demands on both sides, was proposed with the understanding that it was a temporary offer - Barak accepted the proposals, while Arafat didn't.

[RGBVideo]

?

HFS = Holy ****ing ****, TLA-syndrome, you see...
I'm really sorry for the dead ones... Really sad to see that this goes on and on,
and we cannot do anything to help.

[Sirotnikov]

Thanks for the support everyone.


Sonic - you really should stop

a) using wrong analogies (south africa or what ever)
b) reading only pro-palestinian sources.

while one can blame me that i rely mainly on pro-israeli sources:

1) i also read neutral, and pro-palestinian and israeli revisionist (ie, new age self criticism) sources, though i may disagree with them
2) israeli media is by far more credible , if anything - because it's not government controlled.
3) there is no palestinian revisionism or self criticism.

[Sonic]

I know I should stop, I didn't even had started if not very innacurate Oerdin's analogy between Arabs and fascists... I said that the only side which could be compared to nazis are Israel, also btw to say that whole nation is fascist also isn't very good...

[Ramo]

****. Good luck Siro.

[Pekka]

.. Truly sad begin for new year.. Hope you guys are safe there, and none of your relatives or friends were subjected to this.

[Ted Striker]

Sorry about that Israelis.

[Chris 62]

More horror.

And the cycle continues, over and over, with no end in sight...

[Felch]

Fascism could very soundly be compared to many of the military totalitarian regimes in the Middle East, which dominate most aspects of their citizens lives. Oerdin is correct that the Arab governments are by and large, more fascist than the sole Jewish state is. Elections tend to be shady (recall Hussein's referendum) if they exist at all.

Occupational forces are always fascist, in any event. Do you think that the (Non Soviet) Allied forces who have occupied Germany and Japan began by granting the local populations all sorts of rights? No - they waited until they felt that the countries they occupied were no longer threatening, and now they occupy more as forward bases in unequal alliances than as imperializing armies.

Israel likewise would be more than happy to give the Palestinians back all their rights, as soon as they could be assured that they wouldn't be attacked. Unfortunately the Arab world has never once demonstrated any desire to live in peace with Israel. And that, quite frankly, is their own problem.

[Drake Tungsten]

ROSS: Now, that was an Israeli desire. That was not what we presented. But we presented something that did point out that it would take six years before the Israelis would be totally out of the Jordan Valley.

So that map there that you see, which shows a very narrow green space along the border, would become part of the orange. So the Palestinians would have in the West Bank an area that was contiguous. Those who say there were cantons, completely untrue. It was contiguous.

HUME: Cantons being ghettos, in effect...

ROSS: Right.

HUME: ... that would be cut off from other parts of the Palestinian state.

ROSS: Completely untrue.

I knew that the whole "canton" claim was bull**** whevever che or somebody else brought it up. It's nice to be proven right.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Felch X
Unfortunately the Arab world has never once demonstrated any desire to live in peace with Israel. And that, quite frankly, is their own problem.

I think. Felch X, that Egypt and Jordan have made peace with Israel, so your statement is overbroad.

Edan, Thanks for the quotes from Ross. It just goes to show that Arafat is a consumate liar in addition to being a terrorist. I wonder how anyone outside the Arab world can believe anything he says.

Siro, Israel has suffered too much. I only hope that you make Arafat understand that his days as president are numbered if there is no end to terror from within Palestine. Give him a deadline.

[Dinner]

The Isreali choice seems to be between open war if an ultamatium is isssued or smoldering war if the status quo is continued. Knocking off Arafat does raise the question of who would take his place but it would also kill the Palestinian idea that the current violence is benifeting them.

William T. Sherman once said that the only way to insure a lasting peace with a determined enemy is to make the cost of war so high and so devistating that they believe anything else is preferable. Was he right? I don't know.

One thing is for certain and that is there can be no perminent peace resolution as long as Arafat is in charge of the P.A..