Free Assyria

[Heresson]

Well, someone started a topic about an independant Kurdistan, so I'll start a thread about another of Iraqeese minorities, Assyrians. I don't know how many are there of them. On their own sites they claim there are up to 5mlns,
but that seems a bit too much. There are at least 500 000 of them, though. They are Nestorian Christians. They were promised independance in the same time as Kurds, but also weren't given. I'm not an expert on them, so that's all I'll write. I know that their language is eastern Aramaic, though I doubt that every Assyrian knows it, probably Arabic is winning its place today, and I'm not sure, but I think their patriarch resides in USA today (they had a mass emigration I think in the times they were maltreated). They are a small minority in comparison to Kurds and Shiis, so they don't get a proper attention. The other problem is that there is no clear territory they inhabit today; Assyria today, the lands they aspire too, is a part of the lands Kurds claim too I think,
but I heard that there was some agreement between Assyrian and Kurdish groups. Assyrians can't get anything on their own, can they...
OK. That's all I'll write. Forgive me for no research. I just wanted to draw your attention to the problem.

[Bereta_Eder]

Interesting.

I admit I only know the name "Assyrians" from the antiquity.

Allegendly the Greeks had met them?

There was also some differences which ended in fighting


There are representations of them I think in Greek wall scultpures.

I dont know anything more. They were very fierce warriors (and also a bit savage - but thats just what Greeks say who were fighting them and were indeed a bit more "advanced"

I didnt even know they existed still

[chequita guevara]

They are a minority in every region in which they exist, therefore, to give them an independent state would be to trample on the rights of the majority with whom they co-exist.

edit: fixing typos

[Bereta_Eder]

And what is a Nestorian Christian?

Anything to do with coptic?

[Az]

Heresson Them being a minority is a problem, They seem to need protection from the surrounding arab world. I know for a fact that this nationality exists, since my grandmother told me about a family of them that lived next to hers. (early 20th century ) they should all assemble into a certain place, and be given their independence, if they want to.

[Wernazuma III]

No, "Nestorian Christianity", or better put, the "Apostolic Church of the East" is a Syrian church. The only thing they have in common with the Copts is that they are monophysites too. Their head was the "Katholikos" who had his seat in Baghdad, IIRC. This church was the biggest christian church in terms of area - all the Asian Christianity somehow was united under the Nestorians, most importantly the Christians in Iraq, Persia and the christianized Mongols (there were quite a few, most prominent the Uygurs). There were also nestorian bishops in China and the "Thomas Christians" in southern India were at least officially subject of the Nestorians. After the Pax Mongolica ended, the Nestorian christians declined, because it was impossible for them to hold communication over the whole Asian continent. They either returned to other faiths over the time, or they were persecuted. The few remnants of Nestorians joined the Catholics when they arrived with the Portuguese and other Europeans. They did so sometimes readily, because thus they had an organization that backed them or they were forced into unity. That's a very short story of the Nestorians.

[Heresson]

Paiktis:
In fact, Copts are monophysites, whose theological views were formed against Nestorians. To the point that in one monophysite Syrian vocabulary term "Nestorian" was translated as "the enemy"
There were two theological schools, one in Alexandria (where monophysitism was borned) and one in Antioch (where nestorianism was borned). Nestorios, of Antioch,
became the patriarch of Constantinople, and one his friend attacked the folk religion by claiming that Mary can't
be called the mother of God, Theotokos, but only Christotokos or Antropotokos, because she couldn't born
the God, who lived in Jesus as in a temple. By that, Nestorios was attacked by Kyrilos, patriarch of Alexandria, and all the mess started...

Chegitz;
Giving Assyrians a state is much more better thing to do than creating Israel, as they still live mostly in their ancient place.
They would get a small land around the major Ancient Assyrian points and be translocated to it.

[Az]

Heresson Them being a minority is a problem, They seem to need protection from the surrounding arab world. I know for a fact that this nationality exists, since my grandmother told me about a family of them that lived next to hers. (early 20th century ) they should all assemble into a certain place, and be given their independence, if they want to.

[Heresson]

I read two last posts after posting myself. Just one point; as I wrote, Nestorians ARE NOT monophysites.
While monophysites tend to see Jesus Christ as one nature,
which often leads to a claim that the human nature dissolved in the divine one, Nestorians are seeing the too natures as distinct. Catholic/Orthodox view is in the middle.

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by Azazel
Heresson Them being a minority is a problem, They seem to need protection from the surrounding arab world. I know for a fact that this nationality exists, since my grandmother told me about a family of them that lived next to hers. (early 20th century ) they should all assemble into a certain place, and be given their independence, if they want to.

I think I have to correct you. They might have to be protected from their surrounding Iraqi environment - it seems to be an ethnical problem specific to Iraq. It's NOT a general religious problem. Tarek Aziz, IIRC, is a Christian himself...
And forget about the "assemble into a certain place" thing. The world needs everything, but not another powder keg like Israel.

[Caesar the Great]

we're the assyrians conquered a long time ago?

[Wernazuma III]

Not monophysites? My memory must have holes like swiss cheese!

[Az]

errm,

I think I have to correct you. They might have to be protected from their surrounding Iraqi environment - it seems to be an ethnical problem specific to Iraq. It's NOT a general religious problem. Tarek Aziz, IIRC, is a Christian himself...

And forget about the "assemble into a certain place" thing. The world needs everything, but not another powder keg like Israel.

obviously it would be better if the entire region would go atheistic, but since this is not going to happen soon, they should protect themselves.

[Imran Siddiqui]

"What is your name?"
"What is your quest?"
"What is the capital of Assyria?"

From the Gatekeeper in Monty Python's Quest for the Holy Grail .

[Wernazuma III]

Those Assyrians have almost nothing to do with the ancient Assyrians, they just have their name, that's it. They might have had some special ethnic identity different from Iraqi before but without a proper name, nor is it certain WHO are their ancestors. When Islam conquered Iraq, there were mainly nestorians there. Many converted over many centuries, but that special group, retained its Christianity and added the "Assyrian" to seperate their own identity stronger from the "Iraqi". The Assyrian might, of course, alos mean a claim to all Mesopotamia, but I don't know about this.