Free Kurdistan!

[Lancer]

The EU must be aware of that, yes? Is the EU turning a blind eye?

[Az]

Also Turkey did treat them better than Iraq

that doesn't say much.

[Bereta_Eder]

It IS turning a blind eye in the respect that, like the US, the EU does very little to nothing to stop those crimes against the Kurds (who bare in mind also have armed resistance movements, called terrorists by the turkish regime the US and the EU)

But it does not turn a blind eye when it comes to petitions of Turkey to enter the EU.

But yes the EU is quite aware about them. The US government too.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Free the Kurds

[Pekka]

Ok, I have to admit I'm a bit ignorant about this subject.. I know there has been some troubles between turks and kurds, and kurds have had rough time in Iraq, but what's the history behind this?

[ranskaldan]

Kurds are a people straddling the borders of Iraq, Iran and Turkey. After the fall of the Ottomans they didn't get the independence that they wanted and the Europeans drew the borders into the weird ways that it is today (as usual). Hence today the Kurds are a minority in Turkey, Iran, and Iraq.

And I personally think that there's too much idealism brewing around here. Words like "free" are meaningless if the people of a certain region, after gaining "freedom", are going to fight themselves and outsiders for a zillion decades until their entire economy and infrastructure are destroyed. This is not necessarily what'll happen to Kurdistan, but considering the region's volatile past, carving a state out of three existing powerful ones and hoping that all four would sit down and not mind is insurmountably difficult. Not to mention that two of these states already hate the US, one tries to stand for Arab nationalism, and the remaining one is an important strategic ally. Bad choice.

[Shi Huangdi]

Contrary to paitkis' propoganda, there has never been any genocide of the Kurds. Currently 20% of Turkey's population is Kurdish. There would not be such a high population of Kurds if Turkey was going around massacaring them. There was however, a civil war there, and in the modern era nearly ever civil war nobody has clean hands especially considering the potency of guerilla warfare.

Lancer, if you wanted to keep the Northern Iraq part of Kurdistan free, that would be easy. To free all of Kurdistan proper however, you would have the fight the armies of Syria, Iran, and Turkey, all of which have Kurdish lands. To get the Turkish lands you would have to invade the southeast, Turkey, which is one of the worst grounds for fighting and the defender would have a huge advantage. We would likely to significant casulties in any such war. (And this would probably mean to whoever is President at the time loses their next election) Moreover, if somebody was invading from that direction, Turkey most likely would start a real genocide campaign to try to eliminate guerilla threats behind their lines.

Although the Cold War is over, Turkey is still a key ally. It's territory lines the straits guarding the Black Sea. It borders three countries which are hostile to the US: Iraq, Iran, and Syria. The Middle East is a very hostile region to us, and we need the friends we can get in the region. Turkey is also key to mainting Israel's safety as it is an ally of that state, Israel's only ally in the region. Even if you did liberate Kurdistan- you claim they would help in getting Iran. The fact is the Kurds failed in both their insurrections in Iraq and Turkey. If you took a whole new Kurdish state it would not be that rich and it would not have a quality 600,000 man army like Turkey does. Moreover, if Russia in the future ever were to become strong, Turkey would become a key state to us as it was during the cold war. Also, Chegitz has pointed out before many Kurdish leaders are communists as there is a risk a free Kurdistan might be a socialist state. Moreover, if Turkey's government lost it's western support, it is a Moslem country and we risk fundamentalist uprisings in that country.

In any case, Turkey is an ally of the United States. It's bad diplomacy to go around attacking your allies. Turkey has been a loyal ally since the end of the Second World War, has been a loyal during the Cold War, and has been a solid friend in an unfriendly middle east since then. It would most likely anger all of our European allies except Greece, and would probably be the death blow to NATO. If you attack even your own allies then nobody will trust you.

[Bereta_Eder]

That's just the things Shi has copied from turkish sites and pro turkish sites to troll.


Civil war, right.

They burn up whole villages.


Those are crimes against humanity pure and simple.

As for Shi I refer you clearly to my sig.


You with your lies try to justify US stance and to a certain degree the EU one. (alhough we actually try to make Turkey democratic and not a murderer of its people)

But don't try in vain.

[Pekka]

ranskaldan, thanks for the briefing. I feel more educated now.

So, as long as I don't know anything else, I support Free Kurdistan! Of course it wouldn't work just like that, like ranskaldan pointed out. But.. until I get more information, I'll be for Kurdistan for Kurds.

[Shi Huangdi]

"That's just the things Shi has copied from turkish sites and pro turkish sites to troll. "



What an insult! Paiktis, I assure you I produce all my own propoganda myself!

[Bereta_Eder]

True. Sorry for the insult. You do get some ideas from those sites though.

[Bereta_Eder]

Despite the propaganda you also have some blatant eye poping mistakes in there as well.

Kurds were promised freedom by tyhe turks if they fought against the armenians (the armenian genocide by Turkey - 1,5 million people)


They never got it.

Also a prosperous for that region semi free Kurdistan is already formed in N. Iraq.

European members dont care about Turkey being attacked. It is not part of the family anyway and it would be for a good cause. it would be the same as attacking irawq from a humanitarian point of view. no for no to bloddshed sake. which is good

But conflict wont even be necessairy for the turks to acknowledge kurdish independance.

And others which Im bored to pin point.

Lancer is right though. With 40% of the turksih population kurds in 2020 and most of them hating the US guts (not so much europe because we actually put some minor very minopr pressure to turkey) you have on more peoples hating you.



But Turks also dont love you. Your games in Iraq have destrpyed their economy and they think that you take our side on everything. (hey dont ask)
they turkish regime is the one which guarantees the country's alligiance to you. the people dont like it, or you.



There are very few people who love you in that region.

[DerSchwarzfalke]

Why free a people who don't want to be free? Most of the mainstream Kurdish parties advocate a federal republic system in a post-Ba'th Iraq, which would give the Kurds a degree of autonomy and more representation in the governance of the whole country. A federal Iraq with concern for the rights of all its varying parts is probably best for the future of the Middle East; a balkanized Iraq is arguably worse than a Saddamized (no pun intended) Iraq.

[Bereta_Eder]

Its hard to talk about balkans in a region that counts countryes by the tens of millions.

and Kurds want to be free, very much so.

[Dinner]

Are you sure they won't settle for a really nice condo instead of a country? Or maybe a nice stripmall...