Don't Kid Yourself -- "Southern Heritage" Is All About Race

[Lord_Davinator]

ya I can see everyone is white... so you claiming the artist was a racist?

[Berzerker]

Umm...y'all are missing something, if "Southern Heritage" is about racial supremacy, then "American Heritage" is no different since US history included the genocide of a different race of people - Indians. While Uncle Abe was saving the US from slavery, he was signing mandates authorising and promoting genocide out west.

[Berzerker]

In Boston, in the same cemetary where Sam Adams and Ben Franklin are buried, is the grave of a 16 year old Quaker girl, who was hanged by the Puritans for supposedly proselytizing her quaker beliefs.

Damn Puritans, some comedian said her ancestors - Puritans - fled Britain because they weren't allowed to persecute others enough, not because they were persecuted. Many people confuse the Puritans with the Pilgrims who arrived 10-15 years before. When the Puritans arrived, Pilgrims like Roger Williams knew what they were like and he led a group off to found Rhode Island. I can just see him at first sight of the Puritans landing, "OH ****! There goes the neighborhood!

[Sprayber]

Here is Lincoln's thoughts on what was important.

Executive Mansion,
Washington, August 22, 1862.

Hon. Horace Greeley:
Dear Sir.

I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union.I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.

here is the full text

http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/greeley.htm

[Sprayber]

Symbols are a funny thing. How many people that protest the battle flag and say that its racist, would be able to pick out the Confederate National Flag? Why so much attention paid to the flag of the Army of Northern Virginia?


And here is another good story

John Abbott Independence Lee, the last true Virginian to have ever touched the Battle Flag of the 28th Virginia Infantry, would roll over in his grave to see Virginia asking the Army of the Potomac to get his flag back.

Three weeks before Gettysberg the 28th received their new battle flag. Made of a wool from England called bunting, it was said to be more durable in battle than their silk flag. Sewn for them by the women of Richmond, the flag had blue stripes and white stars made of cotton with the words "28th Va. Infy" sewn in.

Battle Flags are the pride of any military unit and holding the units colors in battle is a great honor. Only the capture of a regiment's flag could, in the American Civil War, be a greater honor. For the Army of the North that meant a Congressional Medal of Honor and a raise in Pay.

Private Marshall Sherman a member of the 1st Minnesota Volunteer Infantry, the same unit that the day before assisted in repulsing General George Pickett's charge and in the process lost over 50% of its men, spotted a Virginian "shouting like mad" and Waving a rebel flag.


Sherman who hadn't been in the prior days carnage, charged that color bearer through a hail of bullets, Jabbed his bayonet at John Lee's chest and said, "Throw down that flag or I'll run through." At least that is how the story has always been told in Minnesota.

Now we jump to 2001 and see that the State of Minnesota refused a request from the State of Virginia to get their flag back . Virginia had stated that a 1905 resolution by the US Congress says that flags captured in battle should be returned to the original states.

In 1998 Minnesota Attorney General Hubert Humphrey lll said that law only applied to flags in the possession of the War Department. Minnesota refused to return the flag. The flag is currently kept by the Minnesota Historical Society at a constant 70 degrees and 50% humidity, in Saint Paul.

Attorney General Humphrey has some support in history for keeping this flag. Confederacy's own Jefferson Davis said The banners belonged to the states whose troops had captured them and to return the flags violated "all known military precedents." Fitzhugh Lee, former Governor of Virginia, Confederate veteran, and the great general's nephew, said the banners "are the property of the victors"

June 18 2002 The United States Army's chief of military history, Brigadier John S. Brown issued a decision that a blood stained, bullet- pierced Confederate flag that Minnesota's 1st Volunteer Infantry captured 139 years ago belongs to the federal government and plans to house the flag at an Army museum in Virginia.

Minnesota's Historical Society's deputy director, Ian Stewart says "We do not consider General Brown's opinion a legal ruling" and "We also do not anticipate following his suggestion that we turn over the flag to the Army museum proposed in Virginia."

General Brown has written to the Virginia congressional delegation, "We intend that the flag be returned to the Army" for exhibit at the Army's National Museum scheduled to open in 2009 in Fort Belvoir, Va.

Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura when asked about returning the flag said "Why? I mean, we won." So after 139 years the pride of the 28th Virginia Infantry won't really be coming home, but could reside in a "Blue belly" museum, that is if that Army of the North can capture the flag from another state that believes in "States Rights."

[SnowFire]

As a random aside, our PBS station showed one of Ken Burns older documentaries (made in '85 or so) today on Huey Long. Yikes, that was a scary guy. Sure, I knew that he ran Louisana like his own personal fief, and that he was popular, and that he wanted to run for president in 1936, but I never got a chance to actually see him speak before, or see the backwater hicks who swore he was their great champion. Absolutely horrifying how well he does the "See? Democracy's not working. Maybe I should just do everything now" act.

y'all are missing something, if "Southern Heritage" is about racial supremacy, then "American Heritage" is no different since US history included the genocide of a different race of people - Indians

Knowing your political slant... which would you prefer? That SCOTUS hand down a decision that you agreed with the results of, but used statist principles to defend it (and as a precedent for further application by lower courts)? Or a decision that you disagree with based firmly on Libertarian principles?

Hopefully, you'd answer the second. But why bring this up? Simple. America was never founded on oppressing Indians. It ended up being a bloody side note where we didn't live up to our ideals. However, the CSA was founded on slavery- ignore the question for a moment of whether it was the main thing, blah, blah, blah, but it's right in the CSA constitution and multiple statesmen announced that as a main reason for secession, to stop that crazy Lincoln who wants to free the slaves.

Now, I'll agree that this applies more to "Confederate heritage" if we're using proper grammar, but every time Southern heritage comes up, out come the stars & bars, so the two seem to have merged into one.

[Ramo]

Southern heritage is a synonym for racial supremacy. It's a shame history and culture has been hijacked in this manner, but that's the way it is. The Confederate battle flag, while representing the distinct culture and history of the South, as well as fighting for ideals like free trade and de-centralized governments, it also represents the ideal of slavery and the armed revolt in the name of it. Furthermore, the recent crop of battle flags on Southern capital buildings were not raised to celebrate multi-culturalism, but rather were raised in defiance of those evil de-segrationists. That's the way it happened; get over it and pick some new symbol to celebrate Southern culture.

[Ted Striker]

Just a couple of things to point out:

1) I agree that Grant as a General was very overrated, though he gets way too much credit for his tatics his aggressive execution of his army was pretty good. Old General Scott should be credited for the Anaconda Plan, most notably the blockade of the Southern ports and also for cutting the Mississippi in half in the West.

2) Actually I would disagree with MTG's assessment of the Emancipation Proclomation and say it was one of the most brilliant tactical moves on Lincoln's part. Before the Emancipation Proc. Union morale was low, but after its issuance, Union soliders began to fight with spirit and used slavery as their moral cause and beleived they were fighting on the moral high ground.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
It's real fashionable for people to ignore the ugly side of their history, and only point to the south. Sorry, but most of the Klan and active white supremacists are elsewhere now (according to the FBI), and racism exists everywhere in the US, not just south of the Mason-Dixon line.

True, but the rest of the country doesn't glorify it or minimize it's impact. There is no neo-Mollly Maguire movement or neo-Puritan movement. While we use Pilgram imagery in our Thanksgiving celebrations, there is also a simulatenious twinge of guilt in knowing that "we" betrayed those who saved our national ancestors.

People give the South a lot of sh*t. Inbred, illiterate, racist yokels is how much of the country views the South (and I think my Jacksonville location may be hurting my job hunt for this very reason). But "Southern Pride" raises the same hackles on the back of the neck that Poles and the French feel when someone starts talking about German nationalism.

While the extremists are more powerful outside the South, there is a reason why there is a Republican "Southern Strategy." Blacks are still frequently disenfrachised in the South, as seen most openly in Florida's last two elections (and their primaries).

The South has made impressive strides in overcoming its past, but it's still pretty damned scary at times.

[Guynemer]

I'd just like to register my disappointment at not seeing the "pimp" smiley in the first Ted Striker post I've seen in many moons.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Although preservation of slavery was the rallying call for the landed elite, I think the overall issue goes deeper than that, to a power struggle between elites on both sides of the line, due to the economic value of cotton, and the division of profits between producers and manufacturers. There was an effective trade war, of which slavery was a key ingredient, but the issue for the economic elites was not really about the "rights" of a bunch of kidnapped Africans and their descendants.

Exactly!

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
If reverse attrition is "smart" you can have it. Jackson's tactics are still studied, Grant's aren't.

Maybe so, but Grant's still seem to be the ones we've used up until very recently. Americans don't win by superior tactics. We win by overwhelming the enemy through superior numbers and/or superior firepower, Yankee stubornness, and dumb luck. Outside the Civil War, no one ever discusses our tactical brilliance.

[Ted Striker]

Guynemer,

It is great to see you! I had forgotten about the pimp smilie, but luckily I found it on the hard drive!

But you know, unless your name is Infatplayeration, pimpin' aint' easy:

[SlowwHand]

Re: Don't Kid Yourself -- "Southern Heritage" Is All About Race

Originally posted by DanS
Whenever I see the stars and bars, I'm reminded of Southern Heritage, but not in anyway good. I'm reminded that the civil war really was fought for slavery on the South's part and against it on the North's. For some reason we're supposed to ignore the "elephant in our living room" of slavery in the whole mess for the sake of Southern pride--what a charade. I'm reminded that we're only 40 years from segregation even here in the Nation's capital.

My sister lives in Louisiana, and the common refrain among whites (including her, by now) is that this heritage stuff is about the freedom blah. But the truth remains. The power structure is still white in most areas and many blacks feel instinctively threatened by it. The blacks are the poorest of the lot.

Good thing we don't have Lott as our GOP leader any more. A GOP made up of "Southern Heritage" codewords ain't my Grand Ole Party.

"Southern Heritage" is just a code word for keeping the blacks down.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2002Dec29.html

Perfect illustration of why the Confederacy was formed.
Endless yada-yada by chest-thumping snobs.

[DanS]