N Korea defies US over nuclear crisis

[Imran Siddiqui]

I am largely refering to the Patriot act.

And once again, HOW is that anti-Democratic? After all, it was passed democratically by the Congress.

And keep in mind any information that he releases to Time Magazine might not nessecarily be his true opinions. It's alot easy to gain popularity by saying you are an idealist then by saying you are a realist in this country.

When did I say he released ANY information to Time Magazine. This was a commentary done.

From the past 2 years, I can unequivocally agree. Bush is an idealist. However, he is surrounded by realists. And he is willing to make the ends justify the means.

[My Wife Hates CIV]

I bet we're doing a lot more than most think to protect the good countries. We have AEGIS ships between Japan/NK. Of course we might miss. Of course NK might miss. Again, same as above. but i would again bet on US hardware.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Well since we know the reactor in question, and aware of possible nuclear silos, couldn't we just bomb possible sites suspected of being related to NK's Nuclear program?

Perhaps we could take unilateral action. But I doubt that we would.

I think Bush will form a consensus on what to do with Chine, Russia, SK and Japan and take the issue to the UN.

I predict stiff sanctions on an already poor NK. However, I could be wrong. The UN may authorize force.

I note with interest the outgoing SK president's statement that SK would never allow NK to obtain nuclear weapons. Now, what does that mean?

[SlowwHand]

So now we care what China and Russia think? Why ?

[Sava]

Originally posted by My Wife Hates CIV


what US aggression?! who are we beating up right now. The UN voted 15 to zip against iraq. are you saying the US really is the UN?? Are all the UN members really puppets for the US?? Come on. Everyone has a say about what's going on.

So what's this US aggression???

What does a UN vote to hold weapons inspections have to do with North Korea?

Anyways, the US is going to war regardless of what the UN says/does. Florida just had the largest recall of national guard and reserve troops since WW2. The US is refusing to give North Korea a non-agression pact and then rips them in the media when they start preparing for war... a defensive war against an invading US.

[Shi Huangdi]

" When did I say he released ANY information to Time Magazine. This was a commentary done."

Ok, I went and read the piece. He makes some interesting points, but I think he goes too much on Bush's decleration. Realism has never been a popular doctrine among the American people, so it makes sense for Bush to try to give the impression that he is an idealist acting in a Wilsonian manner, even if he intends to take the advice of his realist advisors.

[Imran Siddiqui]

it makes sense for Bush to try to give the impression that he is an idealist acting in a Wilsonian manner, even if he intends to take the advice of his realist advisors.

I think you overplay Bush's political agenda, and think that it is all a sleight-of-hand. He actually BELIEVES in the idealist principles. He isn't a realist by any measure of the word. Not in his actions or words. He actually does believe the US is hear to make the world a more democratic place.

He may take the advice of his realist advisiors, but how often does he really follow it? Idealism is being willing to piss off people to get your ideals through. Wilson was massively hated because of his idealism, and Bush is similar disliked.

[Saint Marcus]

Can't we just give all nations in the world a few nukes, and be done with this ever lasting debate?

[Ned]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
So now we care what China and Russia think? Why ?

Reasons:

We need their votes at the UN.

We are on the same side on the war against terror.

NK is in their respective "sphere's of influence." We cannot act without their consent and cooperation.

Any sanctions program will need their support.

Any military action would be more likely to succeed if the Chinese and/or Russians helped. We certainly do not want a repeat of the Korean War.

This is just the short list.

[Zero]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus
Can't we just give all nations in the world a few nukes, and be done with this ever lasting debate?

Interesting way of seeing it solved. That opens up questions similar to like right to bear arms but instead of guns its nukes and instead of individual people its the government

btw check this article out..

http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/east/12/27/nkorea.dmz/index.html

They make it sound as if this is the first time nks have done this, and as if its only the nk thats snooping around with firepower.... :rollseye: eh, politics.

[DinoDoc]

I wonder if anyone realizes that the comparison with Wilson isn't particularly flattering.

[Sava]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
I wonder if anyone realizes that the comparison with Wilson isn't particularly flattering.

I do, but I doubt anyone would have listened to me if I said anything .

[DinoDoc]

Now before we get into a debate on realism v. idealism, I really would like someone to answer my question about how one goes about establishing a good faith basis for negotiation with NK given the fruit such actions have gotten us in the past.

[Sava]

One could make the same argument for the US.

[Ned]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Now before we get into a debate on realism v. idealism, I really would like someone to answer my question about how one goes about establishing a good faith basis for negotiation with NK given the fruit such actions have gotten us in the past.

I don't think there will be any negotiations this time. There will be coercion.

The real negotiation is going on right now with China.