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  • For PH and anyone else interested

    Do's and Don't of Teaching English Overseas:

    -Do search for and go to Dave's ESL Cafe, and lurk on their forums for a month.

    -Do follow their links to find out the 'blacklisted' schools, particularly in Eastern Europe but there are many in Korea too. You don't want to arrive and the 'school' is a post box and they've beaten you up and stolen your passport (Point: Never teach in Russia)

    -Do get your documents together and make notarized copies (cost me $25 cnd to do this). They'll want: a notarized copy of your degree, and any additional certification you pick up.

    -Do make sure you have a 4 year degree in something from a UNIVERSITY, they don't take colleges or technical schools.

    -Accreditations:

    1.TESOL certification is nice if you take lots of notes to actually get something out of it. Also, steal their syllabus planner; it's the only thing of value I got. You don't even really need it, and seeing that it takes $450-$1000 dollars for 2 months I classify it as a semi-scam. The people who teach them will tell you a lie: You don't need a degree, TESOL is good enough. It's actually the other way around, TESOL (teacher of english to speakers of other languages) is resume padding. Technically it's true, because yes you can go to Tanzania or someplace and make no money and live in a hut with TESOL.

    2. CELTA or TOEFL certification costs about the same, but it's actually useful. If you want to do this as a career, then get it because it will open up the 'second tier' of jobs for you after you have experience.

    -DON'T take the first offer, and DON'T base your decision on money!! Remember, it sounds funky to live in a remote village, but you will be there at least a year. Get a big city.

    -Most important things to do:
    -Don't let the recruiter be a complete buffer. DO talk to the actual manager you'll be working with and make sure that they speak good english!!!, have experience, and the school has been running for more than a year.

    -Do get an apartment in walking distance, or paid transport costs. 1200 won a day adds up for bus fares, plus in the winter waiting for the unpredictable Asian bus is not fun.

    -In the ads, you'll see a lot talking about 'no split shifts'. No slpit shifts is good. When you talk to the manager MAKE SURE YOU CLARIFY WHAT THE HOURS ARE EXACTLY, because in Asian cultures the relation between employers and contracts is 'personal' the great 2-8 over the phone may quickly turn into 10:00 to 9:00.

    -Forget about overtime. In korea, to get overtime is almost impossible unless you work all the time.

    -Kindergarten: Most schools will ask this 'Do you think you could work kindergarten if you had to?' unless you're totally hardcore, don't fall for it. Asian kindergarten is very long, and early, and very psycho. Unless the school is exclusively a kindergarten school, make it clear you can't/won't or they will think you just said, 'yes, I want to work split shifts'.

    -Money: 1.9 mil is the rock bottom I'd settle for. All the 1.8's you'll see advertised are for suckers or bad schools. I make 2.1 mil. Please remember, that even though this is only about $2400 Cnd a month, most things are much, much cheaper here. Outside of Seoul, most FLTs eat out every night, for example.

    -Moonlighting: many people come here to make money. The 'goldrush' time is dying as the government cracks down, but it is still possible to do illegal 'privates' on the side for big money. It is very common in Seoul. There are severe consequences if you are caught, fines and ticket confiscated, you'll never be allowed back, etc. My advice: If you really want to, make sure that you do it through the agency of a 'vet' FLT who has contacts, the guy on the street may be a g-man.

    -Make sure you talk about vacations with your manager, not recruiter. The recruiter only knows what they need to know to get you in the door. For example, make sure that weekends and sick days are not considered 'vacations'.

    I say go for it. Don't let anyone tell you that it's too risky, or wierd, or whatever. It's a great, rewarding job.

    I am 23 years old, with a BA, from a family of low-income dope farmers. If I had stayed in Canada, these years would have been a series of desperate job searches, always on the edge, caught in lack of appropriate experience, etc etc. There I would be another despised BA with hopes of a career, like the rest of the horde.
    Here I am a 'Sun sang neem' and students move to get out of my shadow.

    Do it, do it for mom, God, and the good folks at the 3M corporation who invented the 'post-it'.
    "Wait a minute..this isn''t FAUX dive, it's just a DIVE!"
    "...Mangy dog staggering about, looking vainly for a place to die."
    "sauna stories? There are no 'sauna stories'.. I mean.. sauna is sauna. You do by the laws of sauna." -P.

  • #2
    Would it be possible to re-name this thread? No one would guess that it's about such a worthy topic, teaching English abroad!

    Seeker's advice is great. I'll add a few things based on my experience ...

    The people who teach (TESL) will tell you a lie: You don't need a degree, TESOL is good enough. It's actually the other way around
    As someone who now manages and hires foreign teachers, I can tell you this is certainly true, at least in China. TESL certificates dont' mean anything except that you spent some money and time somewhere. They say nothing about your teaching ability. Some of the best teachers I know have no certification or formal training in teaching. They have something better: a natural ability and inclination to teach.

    Having said that, here in China certificates are much more important than in the less bureaucratic west. So if your resume or experience is weak, a TESL certificate may help get you a good first job. However, many schools and training centers (like ours) do not require them at all, and hire more on the basis of teaching experience and personality.

    I would also suggest moving somewhere first, then securing a teaching job. Signing on for a job in another country, sight unseen, is risky. You have no idea what the school is like or where it is. Some here in China are in reality so far from the nearest town that it's like living in a luxurious prison.

    Pick a city that both interests you and has a reasonably high demand for English teachers. Write a great cover letter that explains what you are doing in that country, and why you want to teach English (don't go overboard, be credible).
    Official Homepage of the HiRes Graphics Patch for Civ2

    Comment


    • #3
      "I would also suggest moving somewhere first, then securing a teaching job. "

      I've heard this before, but as a first timer the idea of just hopping on a plane and coming over was intimidating, I didn't know how much demand there was, etc.

      Also, in Korea the government requires that you get your working VISA outside the country through your sponsor.

      China had interested me a lot I must admit, it is the 'up and comer' in Asia, especially Shanghai or Hong Kong. But I felt that it wasn't really established yet and they pay for inexperienced persons such as myself was too low.

      What sort of positions do you think I will qualify after completing a full year?
      Would they consider it not enough experience?

      If yuan is about 10-1 on the Cnd dollar (I think?), can I make 230 000-250 000 yuan or more?
      "Wait a minute..this isn''t FAUX dive, it's just a DIVE!"
      "...Mangy dog staggering about, looking vainly for a place to die."
      "sauna stories? There are no 'sauna stories'.. I mean.. sauna is sauna. You do by the laws of sauna." -P.

      Comment


      • #4
        What's TOEFL? The only one I know is a standard test: Test of English as a Foreign Language.

        BTW do you need to be a native speaker?
        (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
        (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
        (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

        Comment


        • #5
          TOEFL is the test.

          In Korea, passing this test is a big deal.

          The certification I'm referring to is the many courses which teach you to teach the test. I don't know how valid it is for real teaching, but it looks good, 'TOEFL Certified' seems to impress some people.
          "Wait a minute..this isn''t FAUX dive, it's just a DIVE!"
          "...Mangy dog staggering about, looking vainly for a place to die."
          "sauna stories? There are no 'sauna stories'.. I mean.. sauna is sauna. You do by the laws of sauna." -P.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hm, do you know how far back they keep the results? It was aeons ago I took the test and aced it.
            (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
            (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
            (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

            Comment


            • #7
              My 2 cents (which is to say, my 31,000 Turkish Lira):

              Remember, too, that English isn't the only thing you can teach abroad. Teaching English isn't for everyone -- for one thing, its skill-oriented rather than knowledge/content oriented, which is makes a big difference in classroom activity and overall workload. But there are English-language schools throughout the developed and developing world, and in the developing world in particular they tend to cater to the nations' elites (i.e., cost a lot, pay well). I haven't done this myself -- I've observed it from the outside, since my daughter is in such a school -- so I can't offer any concrete advice on how to get started. But it's worth knowing about the option.
              "I have as much authority as the pope. I just don't have as many people who believe it." — George Carlin

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: For PH and anyone else interested

                Originally posted by Seeker
                (Point: Never teach in Russia)
                Damn true, esp. in Siberia. Russian pupils eat guys like Seeker on breakfast and send remains back to Canada. As long as you don't have black belt in some kind of martial art and unable to drink bottle of vodka by yourself, (non-stop of course) you would be a stranger here and even then it isn't recomended to teach here. our streets are full of brown bears with balalaykas.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Re: For PH and anyone else interested

                  Originally posted by Serb
                  our streets are full of brown bears with balalaykas.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Seeker-

                    I'm just in the process of making the arrangements to go to Japan (around March hopefully). Can you tell me anything about getting non-resident status for RevCan purposes?(I'd like to keep at least some of my $$$ after all) In the depression thread you mentioned not sending money back home, but I still need to pay OSAP. Any advice you can give is appreciated. BTW thanks for the Dave's tip, I'll check it out.
                    Semper ubi sub ubi

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Phone OSAP.

                      They give them your bank info, and they will set up direct withdrawal.*

                      unfortunately, only from a Canadian account, so you will have to send som money every month, you need your sponsor's approval and passport to do this.

                      Also, Revenue canada is aware of income you send to your canadian b.a., as is osap.

                      In Korea, you might want to just bite the Canadian tax bullet if you don't have a US account you can wire to, because there is a big exit tax if you leave with $10 000+.

                      Serb: I run into more than enough Russian hoodlums and whores here in seoul. I've reached my quota.

                      *EDIT they will still send their package to your last Canadian address though, even if you ask them not to. Don't worry, you don't have to fill out th form and courier it back or anything, if they have your persmission they will jut start to withdraw automatically, six months after grad. (which is ****ing 225.00 a month for me, the vampires)
                      "Wait a minute..this isn''t FAUX dive, it's just a DIVE!"
                      "...Mangy dog staggering about, looking vainly for a place to die."
                      "sauna stories? There are no 'sauna stories'.. I mean.. sauna is sauna. You do by the laws of sauna." -P.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Aren't you supposed to be under 35 or is that just the JET program?
                        Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          That is just the JET program and other 'cultural exchange' programmes.

                          Japan is nearing saturation though, I must warn.

                          Korea is the current 'boom town' for english.

                          BTW: wierd thing: the Korean schools will ask for two passport sized photos. One is for legal purposes.

                          The other is...,well, literally it's to see how ugly you are. They won't hire you if you look ugly, especially in Korea, because they will use your image for advertising purposes (yes, even yours truly is on over 40 000 flyers and a website, but I will never give any clue what my school is), so if you aren't 'pretty' enough then forget about it.
                          "Wait a minute..this isn''t FAUX dive, it's just a DIVE!"
                          "...Mangy dog staggering about, looking vainly for a place to die."
                          "sauna stories? There are no 'sauna stories'.. I mean.. sauna is sauna. You do by the laws of sauna." -P.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Seeker
                            ...so if you aren't 'pretty' enough then forget about it.
                            That explains it. You are pretty! That is why Russian gay hoodlums haunt you all over Seoul.

                            P.S. Sorry for this threadjacking, guys.
                            Freedom is just unawareness of being manipulated.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              They don't want you leaving ugly mized Korean-Anglo babies all over the place, only pretty ones.
                              Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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