Drug War Disaster

[Dr Strangelove]

On a more cheerful note please take a moment to appreciate the fact that this year the drug legalization movement received a stunning defeat at the polls. Looks like people are wiseing up to the lies of the pro-drug crowd. What will they try next?

So, yeah, there was a disaster of sorts this year. For your side.

[Aeson]

Hypocrisy - alcohol by far causes more harm to "society" than all the illegal drugs combined, but we keep that one legal - votes.

This is one point I agree with. Of course it sort of refutes that legalizing drugs would make them less harmful to our society doesn't it?

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Obviously the lesson from the prohibitoion was not enough, I am wandering why don't US goes and bans alchohol again, under Ashcroft it might as well happen, if they win the elections .

[MikeH]

And what happened when alcohol was made illegal in the US?

did it create crime?

If so, is it fair to assume that the current drug prohibition also creates crime?

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by Aeson

Hypocrisy - alcohol by far causes more harm to "society" than all the illegal drugs combined, but we keep that one legal - votes.

This is one point I agree with. Of course it sort of refutes that legalizing drugs would make them less harmful to our society doesn't it?

No, people who want drugs will get drugs regardless, your society won't collaps as the one in the Netherlands doesn't. You wold save billions of $$$, get even more in taxes, lover criminal rates, be able to control the problem instead of promoting murder, deception, black market, local gangsters and Columbian drug lords. All in all you would have a safer and better society.

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by Fez
Also you should instate Singaporean like laws. The basis of my entire belief system. Drug abuse is low there isn't it? Because for possession it is a life sentence (or was it death?) and for selling it is punishable by death. That is Singapore for you. One of the most developed and civilized countries in the world.

Absolutely hilarious, because Singapore is also one of the more socialist states around. Welcome to the left, Fez.

[Caligastia]

Youre preaching to the choir...

[Aeson]

Alcohol is not a more dangerous drug than any illegal drug from a chemical standpoint. It's use is so widespread that it's effects are greater on our society though. Legalizing drugs would increase the usage of those drugs by teaching that their usage is ok.

Sure there would be less drug related crime. The acts of distributing and using them would now be legal. The question is if there would there be less drug related problems. Would addiction decrease because we make it legal? No, it would increase due to wider spread use and more availability. Would drug induced crimes (of the type that would survive) decrease? No, they would increase due to wider spread use and more availability.

Believe it or not, some people do follow laws out of respect for society, or fear of punishment. In the absence of a moral or educational aversion to drugs (which in the US is severely lacking), law is the only restraint in those cases.

I would be all for legalizing drugs if the populace was educated well enough on the subject. The problem with learning through personal experience in drug related matters is often once you've learned, it's too late to apply that knowlege. Addiction.

[Kontiki]

Hmm, also forgot to mention that Singapore has strict laws against gay sex.

[aahz_capone]

Originally posted by Kontiki
Hmm, also forgot to mention that Singapore has strict laws against gay sex.

There are states in the US that still have laws like no oral sex if not married and some states ban anal sex entirely, lets see them enforce that one!

[Aeson]

in all you would have a safer and better society.

There are a few main reasons why I find alcohol destructive.

1. It impairs judgement, vastly increasing the chances of injuring someone else. Especially when driving/operating machinery or handling weapons. It also hinders the reasoning necessary to know not to do those things while under the influence.

2. The affect alcoholism has on the developement of children who are raised in such environments. Also the effect alcohol can have on an unborn child when taken by the mother.

3. It's addictive. An uninformed choice to try the drug can result in a lifelong struggle (in cases where the person wants to quit) that no one would willingly choose.

In two of those cases, the victims of the drug had no part in the choice whether or not to use it. The third case, the victim didn't know what they were getting into. Many illegal drugs have similar effects, impairing judgement, affecting the fetus, or bringing out abusive/violent qualities in people.

Making drugs legal would just increase the incidence of these problems. It has nothing to do with crime rates.

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by aahz_capone



There are states in the US that still have laws like no oral sex if not married and some states ban anal sex entirely, lets see them enforce that one!

Oh, this has nothing to do with enforcement or anything like that, I'm just enjoying the fact that Fez said that Singapore law was the basis for his entire beliefs system when it seems a good chunk of Singapore law goes against what he purports to believe.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by Aeson

in all you would have a safer and better society.

There are a few main reasons why I find alcohol destructive.

1. It impairs judgement, vastly increasing the chances of injuring someone else. Especially when driving/operating machinery or handling weapons. It also hinders the reasoning necessary to know not to do those things while under the influence.

2. The affect alcoholism has on the developement of children who are raised in such environments. Also the effect alcohol can have on an unborn child when taken by the mother.

3. It's addictive. An uninformed choice to try the drug can result in a lifelong struggle (in cases where the person wants to quit) that no one would willingly choose.

In two of those cases, the victims of the drug had no part in the choice whether or not to use it. The third case, the victim didn't know what they were getting into. Many illegal drugs have similar effects, impairing judgement, affecting the fetus, or bringing out abusive/violent qualities in people.

Making drugs legal would just increase the incidence of these problems. It has nothing to do with crime rates.

Some people would get on that train that is for sure, but don't they get there now? Maybe some more would, but exposing those on TV, and educating about it would have kids think twice before they do that.
There would be legal way to help them if they want help, and not like now.

Billions spent on drugh war could be spent on education so could tax dollars, and advertising the dangers should be made compulsary on the products themselves, in the same way as it says on tobacco boxes that it causes cancer, so should the drugs have "addictive" or other properties displayed. People would know. Make it illegal for under 21's like it is now for alchohol in some states.

And you are talking above about the effects of alchohol. I do not question that - however what are the effects of a war on alchohol.

Well you could have seen it during the prohibition times. Certainly much worse than controlled sale of alchohol as it is now.

The most important part is education. Educate don't ban.

edit: however if someone took that stance billions saved on the drugs war and billions earned in tax from sale of drugs leggaly, would not be spent on education, but would be used for the next "star wars project" or "Iraq war" , now that is sad, but it doesn't make war on drugs any better.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by MikeH
And what happened when alcohol was made illegal in the US?

did it create crime?

Does the name Al Capone sound familiar?

Originally posted by MikeH
If so, is it fair to assume that the current drug prohibition also creates crime?

That's one of the arguments of the "Legalise Drugs" movement

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by monkspider
Hey a fellow liberal Kansan! We are truly a rare breed, my friend.

Berz is a libertarian. Close, but not quite.