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  • Allied Morality Questioned in Bombing of German Cities

    Everyone:

    As I post this, it should range from early morning to early afternoon in Europe, so I expect to get some responses from our brethren across The Pond. The subject line says it all; read the article and feel free to contribute to this thread as you see fit afterwards.

    ***

    New book questions morality of Allied bombing of German cities

    By Daniel Rubin
    Knight Ridder Newspapers

    BERLIN — When the morning of March 13, 1945 dawned on the German resort city of Swinemuende, Leon Kolberg climbed out of his bunker and found himself in a city of the dead.

    "A woman was walking down the street with one hand missing, the other holding a baby," said Kolberg, then a 14-year-old refugee. "People were stacked on the foot paths, bodies everywhere. The buildings were gone. I got lost."

    The diaries of American bombers show that their targets the day before were ships and rail lines in the city on the Baltic Sea. The Russians, only 12 miles away, had asked their American and British allies to aid their advance. Some 1,500 German soldiers were identified and buried after the raid, but most of the 23,000 people who were killed in 45 minutes of bombing were German refugees trying to flee the advancing Red Army.

    "It is one of the great slaughters of the Second World War," charges German historian Jorg Friedrich. "Did children deserve to die? Or women?"

    The country that slaughtered millions of Jews, gypsies, homosexuals and Slavs has been hesitant to raise questions about its own peoples‚ suffering in a war that its Nazi leaders started. But Friedrich, whose earlier work focused on Nazi atrocities, has ignited a raucous debate with a new book that questions the morality of the Allied bombing of German cities in World War II.

    The serialization of Friedrich’s book, "The Fire: Germany Under Bombardment, 1940-1945," in Bild, Germany’s largest tabloid, has released a torrent of wartime reminiscences in German newspapers and television programs.

    It also has unleashed a torrent of protest elsewhere. Journalists in Britain, whose cities were pounded by Hitler’s Luftwaffe and later by German V-1 "buzz bombs" and V-2 missiles, have taken particular umbrage at Friedrich‚s account of the deaths of 635,000 German civilians.

    "I am not interested in blaming anyone," Friedrich said. "I am interested in clearing up the facts." Yet his use of words such as "massacre" and "crematorium" were bound to raise hackles because they suggest that there is some moral equivalence between the Nazis‚ genocide and the Allies‚ military tactics.

    In London’s Daily Mail, military author Correlli Barnett called Friedrich a dangerous revisionist whose "historical travesty" is an attempt to justify Adolf Hitler’s crimes. In the Guardian, columnist Ian Buruma wrote that German right-wingers have long dwelled on their victimhood. "All Friedrich has done is break a left-wing taboo."

    "It has been a topic that professional German historians have stayed away from, in part because they haven’t known what to do with it," said Tom Childers, a University of Pennsylvania historian. "Do they dare talk of German suffering when Germany was responsible for the suffering of so many millions?

    "The right have claimed this topic for years. And why not the left? Suffering is human suffering, and these are shattering stories."

    Born in 1944, "I am the generation of sons who questioned their parents," said Friedrich, whose schoolteacher father raised him in the Austrian mountains after their German city of Essen was bombed. "We asked: ‘What happened in the war? Where were you in 1941 when the first Jews were deported? Who wrote for the Nazi papers?’"

    Friedrich spent most of his career writing about the Nuremberg war crimes trials, Nazi guards, Nazi justice. For years he thought of the Allied bombs "as something that came from the sky that punished the rotten and criminal kingdom of evil." Then he read the testimony at Nuremberg of a German general who defended shooting Belarus villagers who were suspected of helping the partisans, saying that was better than bombing indiscriminately.

    Although the Nazis also bombed indiscriminately and their efforts to slaughter and starve Russian civilians are well-documented, Friedrich spent a decade pondering the German general‚s defense of his conduct as he researched the Allied firebombing of Dresden and Hamburg and the leveling of cities such as Cologne, Kassel and Wurzburg.

    "How can we deal with the fact that those massacres took place?" he asked. "Because it was a just cause? But are those just means?" Friedrich argues that Allied air raids such as the one at Swinemuende, now part of Poland, were unnecessary, and reflect Allied rage at the Germans’ refusal to capitulate.

    There again he runs into flak. Tami Davis Biddle, a historian at the U.S. Army War College in Carlisle, Pa., said the Allies were desperate to knock out Hitler before he could develop terrifying new weapons, including an atomic bomb. Intelligence reports predicted a long fight, so in January 1945 the Allies decided to bomb both synthetic oil refineries and eastern German cities to help the Soviet Army finish off the Third Reich faster.

    For years, historians have debated whether bombing German cities, particularly as the British did, was an effort to choke the Nazi war machine or to destroy German morale. Some argue that the Americans and British merely tried to do to German civilians what Hitler had first tried to do to the residents of Rotterdam, Warsaw, London and Coventry.

    In fact, German pilots first practiced the tactic in the Spanish Civil War, killing some 1,600 civilians in a 1937 raid on the Basque village of Guernica that was memorialized in a mural by Pablo Picasso.

    Biddle said a series of documents show that when the Allies targeted eastern German cities, they knew their bombs would fall on refugees as well as massing troops.

    "Who is going to be in that population? It is going to be women and children. It is a statement of the desperation and the level of fear among the Allies that no one stops and says, ‘Wait a minute, maybe we should rethink this …’"

    Kolberg, now 71 and living in Australia, said that for 57 years he has wondered why the Americans would bomb a place full of civilians. While there were some ships in the harbor and German soldiers in port, most of the people in Swinemuende that day were helpless. British historian Roger A. Freeman, who has chronicled the U.S. Eighth Air Force in World War II, notes that American B-17 and B-24 heavy bombers flew about five miles above their targets to avoid anti-aircraft fire. And when smaller, faster fighters dropped through the clouds to strafe trucks and trains, they flew at about 300 mph, making it difficult or impossible to distinguish civilians from soldiers.

    "Remember," said Freeman, "this was total war, and the civilian population was involved as never before."

    What happened that March day six weeks before the Germans surrendered holds lessons for the future, as well, said University of Pennsylvania historian Tom Childers, whose father and uncle flew in the Eighth Air Force.

    "All of the moral ambiguities of modern war are on display in an air war — and this remains true in Afghanistan and it will be the case should there be war in Iraq," he said. "With the air war, with the Germans dropping bombs on Rotterdam or Warsaw or London, or the British hitting Darmstadt, you have military forces attacking places where civilians will be hurt.

    "It forces you into making the kind of argument that this is a just war and awful things must be done, so traditional notions of morality are among the first casualties."
    ***

    All I can say is that this sort of debate would *never* be taking place had Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan succeeded in achieving their goals during World War II.

    Gatekeeper
    "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll die defending your right to say it." — Voltaire

    "Wheresoever you go, go with all your heart." — Confucius

  • #2
    like they are the first to think about this. I questioned this when I learned about it in school.

    It isn't moral to firebomb or nuke cities. There is nothing more you can say about that. War is not moral. To think so is just plain silly.

    The way I look at it is the lesser of the evils won the war. And that is enough for me to sleep at night

    The Allies were evil nations.- just not as evil as the Germans or Japanese by a long shot.

    Comment


    • #3
      And the judgement of this book is just stupid.

      No bombing is moral. Killing is killing. All bombings (even one's today with high tech weapons) result in civilian deaths.

      Bombing any way you do it is evil. But it is a necessary evil.

      I'm trying to find the right words to explain this.

      But what I'm asking is how you can say one type of bombing is moral, while another type isn't. Civilians are killed either way. All you have is conjecture of what the intention of the generals were when they drew up the plans. Did they intentionally target civilians? Probably. But that is not how we operate today. What more needs to be said about this?
      Last edited by Dis; December 16, 2002, 04:48.

      Comment


      • #4
        The bombing was morally wrong, ever so glad the US saved our asses by doing it.
        One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

        Comment


        • #5
          This is a joke right? The Germans were the one who started unconditional bombing of civilians during the London blitz and now we are supposed to feel sorry for them when they get their own medicine in return? It is a pitty about the innocent civilians but that is what happens during war time and the German people should have thought of that before they blindly followed Hitler into world war.
          Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

          Comment


          • #6
            The mass-killing of innocent civilians, such as in the fire-bombings of Tokyo, Hamburg, and Dresden, are absolutely inexusable. Besides, more likely than not, all you're doing is hardening civilian morale and thirst for revenge (i.e. the bombing of London). Sometimes terror works, such as with Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but it generally fails, and is always wrong.
            "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
            -Bokonon

            Comment


            • #7
              I wonder if they will demand a U.S. apology?

              Comment


              • #8
                Sometimes they only thing you can do is fight fire with fire.
                Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The Germans were the one who started unconditional bombing of civilians during the London blitz and now we are supposed to feel sorry for them when they get their own medicine in return?
                  Actually, the London Blitz started when a German bomber accidentally hit a church when the target was an aircraft factory. Churchill responded with a bombing raid in the heart of Berlin, and in reaction Hitler's bombing campaign against civilians started.
                  "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                  -Bokonon

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Also have you noticed how the Japs have lost thier taste for burning and loutiing cities since Hiroshima & Nagasaki? I guess the war also had its up side as well as its down.
                    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Do you actually know how many were killed in the original Berlin raid?
                      One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm sure if you check the book "WW2 day by day" you can find out. It lists absolutely every opporation during every day from 1939 through 1945.
                        Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Sorry, I do know, I was making a point.

                          The number was trivial compared to the 8 RAF pilots who died on the raid.
                          One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Also have you noticed how the Japs have lost thier taste for burning and loutiing cities since Hiroshima & Nagasaki? I guess the war also had its up side as well as its down.
                            Sometimes terror does work. That doesn't make it right. And it's generally a strategically stupid decision IMO. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were exceptions.

                            Do you actually know how many were killed in the original Berlin raid?
                            Nope. No doubt insignificant compared to the number of people who died in the Blitz though.
                            "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                            -Bokonon

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Sorry, I do know, I was making a point.

                              The numbers was trivial compared to the 8 RAF pilots who died on the raid.
                              I was addressing the point of which side started the civilian bombings.

                              Numbers were irrelevent ot the point. The number of people who died from the fire-bombing of Dresden was no doubt much more than the number of people who died in the London Blitz.
                              "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                              -Bokonon

                              Comment

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