What will our first alien encounter be like?

[Starchild]

Biochemist-to-be here: Can anyone direct me to any materials/publications that deal with why phosphate is used as the energy currency in life? Like what unique qualities it has that makes its bonds so energy rich?

[Lorizael]

If we want to determine what alien life will be like, first it must be determined what the fundamentals of life must be. There are certain traits that are necessary for life to evolve to the point that it can sail across the stars.

Life must have a self preservation instinct, a drive to reproduce (whether sexually or... otherwise), the ability to find and consume resources for energy, and... what else? I think that's about it.

Now the question is, what do those three items mean as far as the personality of a species? It probably means absolutely nothing, considering the wide variety of species on Earth.

Can anyone forget their humanity and think of a species that is entirely inhuman? Or not just entirely inhuman, but extraterrestial? Hive like beings with little regard for individual life have been done (though their is still a desire for preservation of the hive itself, which can almost be thought of as an individual being). Those are probably the most common "alien" aliens.

Anyone got anything else?

[Inverse Icarus]

Originally posted by Azazel
Life's chemistry is rather unique, though. it's the unique properties of carbon that allow it to exist. So most chances are that whatever life that would exist would be carbon based.

Silicon has many of the same bonding properties of carbon.

[Starchild]

Yeah, but silicon tends to be heavy and rigid, totally unlike nice, light, happy carbon. I mean, compare CO₂ to SiO₂....

[Inverse Icarus]

doesn't mean in a world devoid of carbon that silicon life couldnt evolve

[Starchild]

There's 500 times more silicon on Earth than there is Carbon and still carbon became the element of choice. Silicon doesn't dissolve very well in water either, which is the most common solvent on Earth. Silicon prefers the harsh stuff like strong acids, which aren't that common on Earth either.

There may be extreme cases of life based on silicon but imagine the type of world they'd need. Oceans of hydrofluoric acid and uncool stuff like that.

[Inverse Icarus]

Originally posted by Starchild
There's 500 times more silicon on Earth than there is Carbon and still carbon became the element of choice. Silicon doesn't dissolve very well in water either, which is the most common solvent on Earth. Silicon prefers the harsh stuff like strong acids, which aren't that common on Earth either.

There may be extreme cases of life based on silicon but imagine the type of world they'd need. Oceans of hydrofluoric acid and uncool stuff like that.

but, it COULD happen.

i wonder how flurking cool they'd look too

imagine a silicon/acid based sentient being

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Starchild
Yeah, but silicon tends to be heavy and rigid, totally unlike nice, light, happy carbon. I mean, compare CO₂ to SiO₂....

Yes, well we live on a planet with a high abundance of silicon as well but there are very, very few biological roles for silicon. Silicon doesn't concatenate like carbon, although it can form silanes with alternate oxygen atoms, although no one really knows why.

So yeah, it is hard to really say about the biological functionality of silicon, but SiO₂ is almost completely inert and would not readily form other compounds like CO₂

As for ATP, well basically the hydrolysis of ATP to ADP results in a very large change in free energy, and hence other reactions are coupled to it. It is related to the P-O bond. But that stuff is in the realms of the chemist, not my area. Perhaps a chemist would like to answer it.

[aahz_capone]

If they are badguys bent on killing us, we will give them a run for their money. No "human rights" **** is gonna stop us from using every nuklear, chemical, biological, immoral weapons known to man. No matter how cool thie technology nothing can withstand the sheer amount of badassedness of the human race. Deep down we are a bunch of evil soul ripping destructobots.

If they are goodguys we will give them a run for their money. No "legal loopholes" are gonna stop us from using every capitalistic money grubbing trick in the book. No matter how cool their technology nothing can withstand the sheer greed of the human race. Deep down we are a bunch of thieving pigs.

But no matter what, SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE, is gonna figure out how to have sex with them, and this will be very very... er... cool.

[Az]

As for ATP, well basically the hydrolysis of ATP to ADP results in a very large change in free energy, and hence other reactions are coupled to it. It is related to the P-O bond. But that stuff is in the realms of the chemist, not my area. Perhaps a chemist would like to answer it.

errm, I thought you biochemists should know it. After all, it's not like those nucleotides line-up by themselves, and you should know a bit more about DNA polymerase-III.

as to how they got together in the first place, I imagine it was pure chance, but pure chance is a silly expression when one simultaneously tries billions of times, for billions of years. you had a bunch of fatty acids floating in water, and they're known to spontaneously create proto-cell-walls. through the van der Vaals interactions. nucleic and other bases were also formed over time, and then, phosphates were abundant. but how would the sugar be formed? could it be formed? perhaps. But how would the elaborate mechanism of the Ribosome be created? *scratches head* I guess, if I knew that, I'd get the Nobel Prize.

[Odin]

Nobel Prize in Chemistry for me.

I am pretty sure most life would be based on carbon, as was said, Silicon compounds are too inert to do anything, and carbon can make very long chains needed for biomolecules.

Life is thought to have originated when catalytic RNA surounded by fat bubbles started to synthesize proteins with the help of co-enzymes like NADP, ATP, and Pyrodoxal Phosphate (Vitamin B6)

[DRoseDARs]

Boris:

You missed my point on BOTH counts. With the asteroids, WE KNOW THEY PRESENT A CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER. So why aren't we making more effort at defending against them? This is ludacris that we aren't, that's my point. I was being faceious when I said "let's pretend they don't exist." That mentality basically reflects current concern about the threat, or rather the near-total lack of concern.

For the native peoples (remember, it wasn't just the Americas the Europeans decimated...), I agree that there really wasn't much for them to do to protect themselves from something TOTALLY unexpected coming from the eastern seas. But therein lies the lesson: WE CAN LEARN FROM HISTORY. Otherwise, we take on the "stupid naivity" quality you seemed to think I was implying. We know that we DON'T know what's out there. By taking simple, basic precautions, we can at least guard against some ill-effects of First Contact with an alien civilization. It's not a matter of preparing us for THEIR arrival (meaning preparing for things about them we know nothing about), it's a matter of preparing US for their arrival(meaning preparing for things about us we know EVERYTHING about). It at least gives us a chance to cope. We can't know how exactly the scenario will play out, but we can guess how it might (based on our own history) and prepare for some of it. Living in a fantasy world where aliens CAN'T exist invites unprecedented disaster.

Although most What-If scenarios are ultimately pointless exercises of the mind as they can't be view except in hindsight, some actually are good to consider, even plan for beforehand.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs
Boris:

You missed my point on BOTH counts. With the asteroids, WE KNOW THEY PRESENT A CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER. So why aren't we making more effort at defending against them? This is ludacris that we aren't, that's my point. I was being faceious when I said "let's pretend they don't exist." That mentality basically reflects current concern about the threat, or rather the near-total lack of concern.

No, I GOT your POINT, I just DISAGREED, Mr. CAPSman. You missed MINE.

As I said, it makes sense to prepare for an asteroid hitting, as it's a quantifiable thing. Why do you think we AREN'T making more effort to defend against them? Remember a few months back when astronomers announced they had found an asteroid that might come close enough to hit? They ARE looking out for them. We ARE taking precautions. Why? Because it's something we can, reasonably, predict. We will see it coming from a ways away. We have ideas for how to destroy them (tactical nukes, perhaps).

For the native peoples (remember, it wasn't just the Americas the Europeans decimated...), I agree that there really wasn't much for them to do to protect themselves from something TOTALLY unexpected coming from the eastern seas. But therein lies the lesson: WE CAN LEARN FROM HISTORY.

You missed my point again here--even if the natives had been expecting the Europeans, they would have been unable to protect against them. What could they have done? How could they have prepared? What ability did they have to fend of smallpox?

Otherwise, we take on the "stupid naivity" quality you seemed to think I was implying. We know that we DON'T know what's out there. By taking simple, basic precautions, we can at least guard against some ill-effects of First Contact with an alien civilization.

What precautions? How? You're missing my point here as well--there's NOTHING we can prepare for. It's a completely unknown quantity!

It's not a matter of preparing us for THEIR arrival (meaning preparing for things about them we know nothing about), it's a matter of preparing US for their arrival(meaning preparing for things about us we know EVERYTHING about). It at least gives us a chance to cope.

Cope? So by saying it's so highly improbable that aliens will ever contact us or us them, that's somehow diminishing our ability to cope? I don't think so. We should be "mentally steeling" ourselves is what you mean. Why? What possible good will that do for society as we live in it? In what way will it change any outcome?

We can't know how exactly the scenario will play out, but we can guess how it might (based on our own history) and prepare for some of it. Living in a fantasy world where aliens CAN'T exist invites unprecedented disaster.

I think you're being a weeee bit overdramatic here. First, I was never talking about aliens can't existing, just the likelihood of them getting here or us there, which is virtually nil. It would be silly for anyone to dismiss the possibility outright of aliens existing somewhere. But I just don't see what disaster will occur by not believing they can get here. How would it make a difference in the outcome?

Although most What-If scenarios are ultimately pointless exercises of the mind as they can't be view except in hindsight, some actually are good to consider, even plan for beforehand.

I'd say they all are pointless to consider. There are many things in life we have no control over, so it is a waste of time worrying about them. This is certainly one of them. We have no control over what aliens might contact us, or what they will want, or what they will be like. Any assumptions on those points would be as likely to lead to something good/bad happening as any other. So why worry about it? Why even consider it?

Most importantly, why waste $$ on it at NASA when they could be using it to fend off asteroids?

[Az]

catalytic RNA surounded by fat bubbles started to synthesize proteins with the help of co-enzymes like NADP, ATP, and Pyrodoxal Phosphate (Vitamin B6)

elaborate. it takes a ribosome to do it nowadays, which is a protein ( 2 proteins actually) itself.

[Docfeelgood]

I have been seeing aliens fur years!
Just come down to the border