Who EU left behind

[axi]

If there is a place that's worse to be than in the EU, it's to be an ex-Yugoslavian state.

Stupid Yugos! You gave your future a big kick in the groin with that war...

Greek capitalists want the Balkans in the EU for many reasons:

1. That will shape up your law enforcement and reduce corruption spillover.
2. Our money will be free to be invested in the area and our products to be sold, tariff-free.
3. We will cease being in the bloody corner of the map (Finns know what I'm talking about)

The greek citizens are rather sceptic about it because:
1. We are going to start paying up the bill, instead of getting paid.
2. Our agriculture will take a hit, through harsh competition with the neighbouring countries.
3. The amount of foreigners will increase and that spurs xenophobia.

[Pekka]

I'm still thinking EU is a good thing and it has very much potential.. but I'm thinking about more locally what it means to me. For example crimes. I live in a country that is almost free of crimes. We have low crime rate, and punishment is also very mild. So if I was criminal, my mind would thing 'Hmm.. there is this country which doesn't have competition, lots of money for us to make and take! And even if we get caught, we get so mild punishment, we will be out in no time, LET'S GO TO FINLAND!'. We will defend ourselves with fury and determination!

[VetLegion]

I understand you feel like not giving money away Pekka

But europe is one economic area and even one cultural area. Every nation in it holds european union as a noble ideal, and none should be prevented from achieving it.

There are big differences between us ofcourse. Finland was I think first on Transparency international list of least corrupt countries, while Croatia holds a not so great position

I would also feel bad giving my development money to a corrupt country

But its not all about the money. Its about equalising the starting chances for the citizens, making up for lost time. Poland didnt choose to be in the eastern bloc. You all have a 50 years head start on us it is only fair you help us.

And trust me, money is not the biggest issue. I even read Slovenia and maybe Chech republic may be a net money contributers even in the first years

[TCO]

Come to NAFTA...we will stretch the definition of North America.

[VetLegion]

'Hmm.. there is this country which doesn't have competition, lots of money for us to make and take! And even if we get caught, we get so mild punishment, we will be out in no time, LET'S GO TO FINLAND!'. We will defend ourselves with fury and determination!

I sympathse with you. But not only crime, social benefits. Just think, Sweden gives more money in benefits to the unemployed then my college educated father earns here. Tempting

[VetLegion]

Come to NAFTA...we will stretch the definition of North America.

can we bring Turkey?

btw havent seen that sub in a long time...

[Pekka]

VetLegion, Yeah, I agree with you. That's why I think you guys (and Turkey) should get in at some point, but not too late either. It would help some countries out very much, and EU would get something back eventually. There are millions of people in these areas that need to get this done, so they can start living 'normal' lives.

I saw program, it was from Turkey where there was this big modern car factory... but the people got paid the fifth(!) of the normal salary here for the same job. Now there's gotta be something wrong in that. When they join EU, these things could be slowly repaired.

Also in Balcans.. them getting into EU would stabilize the area pretty good. And that's a good thing. And that shouldn't be about money either.
So yes, I think EU should get even more members, from Balcans, Turkey etc. Also they shouldn't be able to have to wait 20 years for this to happen..
We should just think hard how we can do this in best way, so we can ensure everything really goes well and the right people will benefit (and not criminals, or corrupted people). It will happen.. eventually it will happen.


.. and then we start conquering ME, and Asia..

[Pekka]

VetLegion, wow that sucks! There are also tons of educated people, and their knowledge could be harnessed.. and good workers too. The rest can join our army, or be shot .
That would be good thing, it woudl open borders, so for example your father could come here and earn decent living, or others come here to study.. also lots of work done in Balkans too, so we could go over there, if the salaries are of course stabilized .

[VetLegion]

1. That will shape up your law enforcement and reduce corruption spillover.

we will never ban computer games!

2. Our money will be free to be invested in the area and our products to be sold, tariff- free.

you produce something except tourism and olives?

3. We will cease being in the bloody corner of the map (Finns know what I'm talking about)

plus we will build a highway through Croatia, Montenegro, Albania to Greece

1. We are going to start paying up the bill, instead of getting paid.

it had to come one day

2. Our agriculture will take a hit, through harsh competition with the neighbouring countries.

yep. Croatian olives are better

3. The amount of foreigners will increase and that spurs xenophobia.

from the north balkans to Greece? You are not exactly the mecca for us

just the Albanians I think, and you got used to them

[VetLegion]

That would be good thing, it woudl open borders, so for example your father could come here and earn decent living

I was just joking about moving. We are not USA. People here do not leave their home behind lightly... and since we are not exactly starving..

I assure you, if the borders open, there will not be big packing of tents and moving north. On the contrary, since we have the last clean part of mediteranean here, and great climate we may see the number of Finns increase

or others come here to study..

studying abroad is cool




btw, you mentioned how to help and not send money to corrupt politicans. Help with judicial system is very important. We have laws and courts but they are overworked and cases mount up and they are corrupt and inneficient. It is very important that you can depend on rule of the law to resolve your disputes.. that automaticaly help economy and all other sectors

So the European court in Strassbourg is a great thing for example. It helps countries with problems by forcing them to improve courts. Lots of cases from Greece, Turkey, Croatia... go there when nothing else works.

[TCO]

Turkey can come in if I get a hawty to look after me.

Need some feta cheese and olives also...to bribe me. (I love Turk/Croatian food)

[Pekka]

I'm not even expecting that. I think majority of people wants to stay where their homes are, and build their countries. But it would open new opportunities to them who wants it. And yes, we'd be right there on your beaches, drinking too much, making noise and trashing places until you have had enough with us and kick us out .

[VetLegion]

Nah, Finns and Croats would come to terms easily. You are one of our roll models actually

Btw.. complaining about tourists.. I read one guy here reported his own wife to police for renting rooms. apparently, tourists in them played cards at 2 PM (yes, P) and it disturbed his sleep

[Bereta_Eder]

Greece (not EU, GREECE) is giving away 550 million euros for Balkans reconstruction and all I got was this lousy T-thread.

[Pekka]

Yeah, we would. I think we are pretty much same kind of people and all. But you guys must have it pretty bad if you like us in that way! You should know we can't take compliments, we freeze and don't know what to do. Just some cultural hints. Best way to complement a finn is not to say anything, and if he does badly, then swear a lot and hit him.

Ohhh I can't hold it anymore, EU must welcome Balkans now. NOW NOW NOW!