Should Turkey Be Allowed To Join EU?

[Boris Godunov]

Being a U.S. state would entitle it to far more economic benefit than being an EU partner.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by DaShi
The US wants to join the EU eventually.

No, we don't!

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler


I think you are underestimating the federal structures of the Union.

Are you telling me that France has as much sovereignty as Mississippi?

[HershOstropoler]

No. But "mere state" vs "equal partner" sounds like you are underestimating the federal structures.

[Boris Godunov]

Sovereignty isn't the issue. The U.S. Federal government provides a massive amount of benefits to U.S. States via Federal projects, grants, infrastructure, disaster aid, etc. Also, considering the nature of state sovereignty, joining the U.S. wouldn't force Turkey to ammend quite as much of their laws vis-a-vis civil rights.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Being a U.S. state would entitle it to far more economic benefit than being an EU partner.

I'm not sure that the average citizen in Turkey would see the economic benifits as being good enough as to being reduced to the status of a state and I dont think the Turkish PM would like to just be a governor.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Sprayber
Are you telling me that France has as much sovereignty as Mississippi?

France has more, since France can wage war and Mississippi cannot.

[el freako]

The problems with Turkey are minor apart from one important factor - which makes them major.

Geographical location:
Well Cyprus is in Asia

Culture/Religion:
Just look at Greece (or Cyprus again for that matter).

Level of economic development:
About on a par with the Balkans or Baltic States.


The real problem is it's too damn big - If Turkey joins the EU in 2015 then it will have the same population, and therefore the same voting weight, as Germany with 80m people (Britian and France have 60m and Italy 55m, with Spain and Poland at 40m).
It would immediately become a crucial player in determining the way the EU develops - and as such it's 'minor' differences become far more important.

I do think we in europe could work around these problems, indeed it might be the stimulus for an even closer working relationship between the current members.

I think that we should give turkey a date on which talks for membership will begin.

[Dinner]

Compared to most nation states the EU's federal power is extrodinarially weak. It may one day become a fully functioning federal government but until it has the authority to compell member states into doing things they adimently don't want to do then it will remain a weak federal government whom member states can listen to or ignore at there pleasure.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by el freako
The real problem is it's too damn big - If Turkey joins the EU in 2015 then it will have the same population, and therefore the same voting weight, as Germany with 80m people (Britian and France have 60m and Italy 55m, with Spain and Poland at 40m).

That's not much of a problem, because IIRC there's a 30-votes cap. Germany has as much votes as France and Britain, and Turkey also will have only 30 at most. Even Belgia/Netherlands/Luxembourg have together 30, although their added up population is much less than these of the other 30-votes members.

I think that we should give turkey a date on which talks for membership will begin.

I concur, and 2015 sounds realistic. Given, the Turks do their homework.

[chequita guevara]

You could force them to grant independence to Kurdistan and Armenia as a condition of joining. That should cut down on their population somewhat.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Sovereignty isn't the issue. The U.S. Federal government provides a massive amount of benefits to U.S. States via Federal projects, grants, infrastructure, disaster aid, etc. Also, considering the nature of state sovereignty, joining the U.S. wouldn't force Turkey to ammend quite as much of their laws vis-a-vis civil rights.

Sovereignty is always an issue Boris especially when an area goes from being an independent state to something less then independent. As I recall we had small squabble between the federal goverment and the states about a hundred years ago. My view is that states like Germany and the UK are stupid for giving up their power to some goverment in Brussels or wherever the Capital would be.

The issue here is, will some Euros drop their holier than thou attitude and allow the Turks to join it. If not, then they should at least be honest that they just dont want "other" people in their little club.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


France has more, since France can wage war and Mississippi cannot.

A lot of good it does them

[Saint Marcus]

Geographical location:
Well Cyprus is in Asia

yet Greek (thus European) in culture.

Culture/Religion:
Just look at Greece (or Cyprus again for that matter).

???

Greece has a European culture. And it is Christian.

Level of economic development:
About on a par with the Balkans or Baltic States.

turkey is actually poorer than the Baltic states, and poorer than the Balkan state that will join the EU in the coming years (Slovenia).

Does anyone else see in this statement the dripping bias against anything not European?

Duh. Of course there's a bias. It's the EUROPEAN union. Are you saying that the united states of AMERICA is a bias as well?

[HershOstropoler]

Spray:

Exactly.

When the CFSDP gets partly integrated into the community structure and the rest in the 2nd pillar, the EU is pretty much indistinguishable from a decentralised federal state.

I also suggest we rename it the Something Union when the US has changed to the United States of Something.