It is the year 1400 and you have controll of 500 infantry, and a carrier...

[RGBVideo]

In year 1400, Islam and China are strong. Europe is full of simple barbarians compared to them.

UR

[monkspider]

Save the world from Spanish aggression!

[GePap]

Well:

I agree with UR that the whole carrier plan is wacky. Biggest problem, you run out of ammo and fuel right quick, and you have absolutely no way of replenishment, period. Then of course, your army will get sick form all the wonderful diseases your group is not enoqulated for (Remember smallpox, plague?)
Fine, you could do some damage, but after about a week, you are out of stuff, and in deep sh*t. Plus, expect accuracy to drop, as there are no satellites for all the guided equipment, or no GPS devices either.

As for UR's plan: don't expect local land-owners to give up without a fight, plus expect the locals to view you with deep suspicion. So while this is a far better plan than the carrier one,expect it to take multiple years to get of the ground at all.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior
I'd take Japan because Japan is cool. Land there, win a war for them, and make friends with those in command. The people will like me cause I won the war. Eventually, the people more important than me will meet with tragic accidents. Then I'd build an airstrip, unload the planes to the island. (This makes Japanese mainland invincible for the next 350 years.) Use the carrier to take people, supplies, and whatnot across the Pacific. Colonize California and Western North America. Build up trade, shipping resources quickly across the Pacific with the carrier, and make a lot of money. Try to convert the little islands in the Pacific to my cause. Make examples of ones that don't. Build airstrips on the islands so that I can project my power farther. Be a Pacific Phoenicia, except a bit more evil and with advanced technology, to summarize.

They'll never accept a foreign ruler no matter how much you do for them. Most of Asia is that way. You'll have to oppress them.

[Flubber]

The carrier plan is kinda wacky but I don't think you need to expend that much ammo to make the point. You sail into some capital with the carrier and the locals are all agog -- you send a message for the ruler in some spectaculiar fashion that would be impressive to the particuliar culture-- Essentially all you want is a meeting on safe terms so you claim to be a deity and have the ruler(s) come aboard your ship ( blow up something as a show of power if necessary but the mere size of the carrier should suffice

Given your power it should be relatively easy to get the rulers to agree to give you some land and some people. Leave one or two men behind to train and educate your little fiefdom. In countries with warring factions, you might even get a concession from each of several lords or kings or whatever.

The idea is to have small fiefs of your own throughout the world which can be trained in better weaponry, agriculture, sanitation . You appease the local leaders-- in theory you should be able to bug their palaces and therefore have a good idea of what combination of threats, gifts and talk will work, Make it worth the local rulers time to deal with you until you get established-- if your fief provides large yields of grains etc

The hope is that over a couple of years, you will attain growing influence over the local population as you treat them well and they prosper while retaining the marines and the carrier as the unspoken club. Your fief could grow year by year as you willing allow a lot of the production to go to the rulers-- Shroud your fief in the mysticism of religion and allow news of the wonders to spread.

By the time the rulers realize that they have a large group of well trained people loyal to someone else, your position there would be unassailable. Do this in a number of places on each continent varying the approach as necessary for the local cultural context.

When it come time to impose your rule, do it in as bloodless a fashion as possible-- If a particular ruler opposes you, a single sniper shot to the head would be an effective means of persuasion

In all things, maintain the aura that you are a deity but have an explaination that your servants are not ( so people do not lose faith if one of your marines dies). Teach the people the benefits of peace but provide them with sufficient arms to protect themselves from any barbarian hordes.

The hope is that you will establish a number of civilized areas that with advantages in technology and sanitation can grow. If these grow large enough they eventually encounter strong interior forces where your carrier is less of a factor ( they cannot see it after all )-- But your people should have superior weaponry and you could send a chopper or two in support of your loyal people as a " message from god" if there was ever serious opposition- Given that armies often massed to attack, it would be a slaughter.


Once I had a bunch of societies safely on the way to civilization, I would consider my work to be done . . . I would sail my carrier to some Pacific island and relax-- perhaps checking in on the various regions from time to time and as resources permitted

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by St Leo
This is what they call an ISOT scenario in soc.history.what-if

What is an ISOT?

Edit: NM you answered(ISOT = Island in the Sea of Time).....

You seem to know a bit about this if you know an name for this hypothetica LOL! I am CONSTANTLY discusing this idea with my friends(who are also history nuts) or on online message boards, you know any good places to read scholarly ones online(or in books)?

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by TheStinger
religion in the 1500's would cease to be effective once you roll up in your carrier. Muhammed never said nothing about 80000 ton metal ships with flying machines.

I would in turn go to Mecca and Rome and anywhere else some bloke set himself up as a religious leader and offer him a choice tell everyone its a big lie or they go to the Falkland Islands

With something as impressive as the carrier, you might as well claim you are the second coming of Jesus, the next prophet after Mohammed, the simply the messiah.

Stick to your promises and people will soon worship you like a god. Then you can twist the existing religions according to your desire.

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Okay. First thing I do is to trade in my carrier for a whole bunch of experts: doctors, chemists, metulagists, all sorts of engineers, mathematicians, experts on TCM. Then I'd got the whole group vaccinated against nasty diseases such as the bubonic plague and smallpox. I'll also get a large supply of medicine and seeds. Make sure everybody and everything are disinfected. Then I'd deposit myself with the whole group somewhere in Southern China, probably Canton.

I would never trade in the carrier. First, it's the symbol of my unlimited power and strength. Second, it's my insurance policy against any potential uprisings. Third, it acts as base of which modern knowledges are kept and being developed.

I'd get everybody to dress in plainclothes and mix in with the crowd. Check out the local anti-mongol secret society and join them. Get the marines to train the soldiers in combat techniques. Get the agricultural experts to improve the farmers' farming yields. Keep the people fed to win their hearts. Once I muster sufficient military strength stage a revolt to overthrow the local government. Stage defenses along the mountain ranges in Northen Canton.

Remember, China was in a major civil war in 1400, with Prince of Yan rebelling against his nephew Emperor. Prince of Yan was one smart dude, but a very brutal bastard. The emperor was not too bright, but a really nice guy. You could pick the side, make yourself a very distinguished VIP. Then after the war was over, the winner would undoubtedly turn on you. That would be your chance to seize the power.

Once that is done, reform the government - put in a modern form of taxation. Throw the landowners into jail, let the farmers own their land. When the news spreads, people will flock in. More people = bigger army. Meanwhile, get the prospectors out to look for iron and coal mines. Mine the iron and coal to make steel, so we can build guns. Probably nothing major, just bolt action rifles and revolvers, but that's all we need.

You basically have to learn from Mao: setting up a new philosophy and a new political movement. Use modern communication and proganda methods to spread your campagn. Eliminating existing big landlords was a must, but could only be done once you had enough followings.

When we are ready, we move along the coast up North and overthrow the mongol rule one by one. We build up the province one by one. When we are ready, we move to the next. We keep going North until we hit the Yangzee river, then spread westwards. In 3-5 years, maybe 10, we'll take control of the whole China.

Mongols were already pushed out of China by 1400, but they remained a big threat up in the north. After you had carried out your internal reforms, you were finally able to pacify Mongols once and for all. Crush any armed resistances ruthlessly, move in Tibetan monks to teach them some peaceful religion, and bring the remaining population under your dependency.

Next target will be Indo-China. We go in there, we tell the people, "If you join us, we will show you how to grow more food, we will show you how to have a better life. If you don't want to join us, you are free to go."

By winning people's hearts, soon we will have a huge army. With a huge army we go to India next. Repeat. After that, Middle East. Repeat. Then Europe. When we have control of the whole Europe, we may decide whether we want to cross to the Americas.

I would secure Xinjiang, Tibet, and Siberia first. Defeating Tamerlane and putting his head on a pike would also greatly enhance your prestige.

[ranskaldan]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Okay. First thing I do is to trade in my carrier for a whole bunch of experts: doctors, chemists, metulagists, all sorts of engineers, mathematicians, experts on TCM. Then I'd got the whole group vaccinated against nasty diseases such as the bubonic plague and smallpox. I'll also get a large supply of medicine and seeds. Make sure everybody and everything are disinfected. Then I'd deposit myself with the whole group somewhere in Southern China, probably Canton.

I'd get everybody to dress in plainclothes and mix in with the crowd. Check out the local anti-mongol secret society and join them. Get the marines to train the soldiers in combat techniques. Get the agricultural experts to improve the farmers' farming yields. Keep the people fed to win their hearts. Once I muster sufficient military strength stage a revolt to overthrow the local government. Stage defenses along the mountain ranges in Northen Canton.

Once that is done, reform the government - put in a modern form of taxation. Throw the landowners into jail, let the farmers own their land. When the news spreads, people will flock in. More people = bigger army. Meanwhile, get the prospectors out to look for iron and coal mines. Mine the iron and coal to make steel, so we can build guns. Probably nothing major, just bolt action rifles and revolvers, but that's all we need.

When we are ready, we move along the coast up North and overthrow the mongol rule one by one. We build up the province one by one. When we are ready, we move to the next. We keep going North until we hit the Yangzee river, then spread westwards. In 3-5 years, maybe 10, we'll take control of the whole China.

Next target will be Indo-China. We go in there, we tell the people, "If you join us, we will show you how to grow more food, we will show you how to have a better life. If you don't want to join us, you are free to go."

By winning people's hearts, soon we will have a huge army. With a huge army we go to India next. Repeat. After that, Middle East. Repeat. Then Europe. When we have control of the whole Europe, we may decide whether we want to cross to the Americas.

one problem: the Mongols were overthrown in 1368... But on the other hand, if you drop into China in 1360, everything will work out perfectly.

But on the other hand, that means what we need for world conquest in 1360 isn't really a carrier - it's some cool toys to demonstrate that you're a god, plus lots and lots of technical manuals. And the carrier and the planes on it would need a lot of modern fuel - not something you'd find in the late Yuan Dynasty.

[JohnT]

You know, as a practical matter, modern how-to guides will be quite useless except for carrier maintainance - and then those will only be good for as long as supplies hold out. What good is knowing that the ball bearings are frozen when there is no way to make new ball bearings?

Since we are taking our carrier back to a pre-industrial, nascaent Renaissance, near-scientific society, I think that rather than taking technical manuals on computer programming, one would take back information that a society of 1400ad could use immediately. I think that if you can take your country and implement 1550ad technology, you'll kick some serious ass as you will now have a country capable of supporting your military affairs while you use the carriers as the symbol of your dominance.

Things I would "invent" or "discover" within 10 years (I'm still taking over Britian, btw):

Printing Press (hell, this would be the first thing I invent, and I'd distribute them everywhere in England)
Gunpowder
America
Improved sailing ships
Telescopes
Microscopes
Metallurgy improvements
Improved tactics that can implement the new gunpowder technology

I'll probably give the Catholic Church a monopoly on religion in England, but I will not support their decrees with my government or forces.

Anyway, imho China's too big. England, otoh, is just the right size, is surrounded by water (something that Tibet lacks, btw), and shares a civilization common with the continent meaning that I can try to leave as much untouched by my presence as possible.

Don't underestimate your enemies. Just because they don't know doesn't mean they can't understand. My daughter is perfect proof of that: she doesn't know anything about the remote control, but she understands that she can dismantle it if she just takes her thumb like this...

[Maniac]

Originally posted by JohnT
Actually, China was about to end a period of expansion by 1400.

Actually it was about to reach its height (on the exploration field) with the Zheng He expeditions. So count me in for China!

[Jules]

This is some sort of new soon-to-be-released expansion pack for Civ3, yes?
"Civ3: The Final Countdown Redux"

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by Jules
This is some sort of new soon-to-be-released expansion pack for Civ3, yes?
"Civ3: The Final Countdown Redux"

I dont think it would work for civ, BUTTTT wouldnt a game with this kinda premise be awsome?

Turn base strategy, devote your rescources between "research", "infrastructure"(getting some modern supply factories up) "military" and "religion"(or convincing people your God).

[Jules]

Originally posted by Vesayen
I dont think it would work for civ, BUTTTT wouldnt a game with this kinda premise be awsome?

Turn base strategy, devote your rescources between "research", "infrastructure"(getting some modern supply factories up) "military" and "religion"(or convincing people your God).

Happened all the time when I played the original Civ, except sometimes the enemy phalanx would kill my battleship.

[Provost Harrison]

I don't know what I'd do with the army but I'd fill the carrier with shopping