9th Circuit: Individuals don't have the right to own firearms.

[Zkribbler]

There was a story in today's paper about the 9th Circuit upholding California's ban on assault weapons. The reasoning of the Judge Reinhardt is that the purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to permit the states to have armed militias but that the 2nd Amendment does not guarantee invidividuals the right to own firearms.

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

The 5th Circuit has looked at this same language and has found right for individuals to own firearms.

[Seneca]

Why not have a great big referendum to sort out once and for all what this amendment is supposed to mean?

And get the commas right this time, why don't you.

[Shi Huangdi]

Well I guess since you have two different circuit courts disagreeing, it'll probably get picked up by SCOTUS.

[monkspider]

How interesting, guns are unneeded, the sooner we come to this realization, the better. That said, it is probably not wise at this point, as a mere matter of pragmatism, to attempt to restrict fire arms. I expect this case to receive quite a fair deal of criticism in any event.

[Shi Huangdi]

Originally posted by monkspider
How interesting, guns are unneeded, the sooner we come to this realization, the better. That said, it is probably not wise at this point, as a mere matter of pragmatism, to attempt to restrict fire arms. I expect this case to receive quite a fair deal of criticism in any event.

yes but without guns how are you ever going to have your revolution thigny?

[monkspider]

Communism willl never come about as result of a revolution of blood and iron, it will only come about through greater spiritual enlightenment on the part of the masses.

[Shi Huangdi]

And so what good will some hippie spiritual enlightenment do you if the army is shooting at you and you don't have guns to protect yourself?

[monkspider]

Who's to say the army won't be enlightened either?
I'm confident that God will take care of those who wish to establish his principles as a way of life. Returning evil with evil will never be necessary.
(sorry to threadjack Zkribb)

[Shi Huangdi]

You're not being realalistic. Communism has never come without a struggle, and often the military has served as a force defending the old regime. Take Italy for instance, Che once told us how the army was planning on rebelling if the communists won there. In greece the military formed a junta government in the name of anti-communism. In Chile the Military ousted Allende. Your argument that the bourgeois will give up without an armed struggle flies in the face of history.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by monkspider
I'm confident that God will take care of those who wish to establish his principles as a way of life.

God hasn't been kind to such folks up until now...

[monkspider]

You're right that communism will never come about without struggle, true and lasting communism will only come about as a result of a struggle for the mind, rather than the traditional struggle of capturing choke points, and cutting off supply lines, and so forth. There will be struggle, no doubt, in giving up things such as greed, and hatred, and so forth. Overcoming these things to live for your fellow man will be a violent stuggle, but not in the sense that you speak of. For the masses to come to the realization of greater truths, and overcoming these desires, will be a greater struggle than any that have taken place, up to this point.
The historical events you speak of, while accurate, only prove my point. Communists that wish to violently overthrow this or that government are going against the grain, they will always have the odds against them. They are going against an entrenched establishment. The greatest weapon a revolutionary can wield is not an M-16 or an Ak-47, but love, and a willing desire to help improve the lives of others. Only these weapons will bring about lasting communism. My comrades who wish to establish communism would be wise to throw their various firearms in the rubbish.

[David Floyd]

Personally, I find your claim that communism is a "Christian system" to be ridiculous.

Of course, you can argue that the crimes committed in the name of communism do not reflect true communism, but I would of course have to reply that they do indeed reflect true communism, because absolute power is a corrupting influence, and if the state is given absolute power, it WILL be corrupt.

[Drake Tungsten]

Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya! Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya! Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya! Oh Lord, kumbaya!

[Boris Godunov]

See, the right to own firearms is collective, not individual.

[Shi Huangdi]

Yes I give you examples in which the military sucsesfully stopped socialism in those countries, but there are different example. In Russia and Cuba armed struggle did suceed in bringing out a revolution.

Your hope that everyone will just suddenly start loving each other does not seem well founded. Not only has every sucsessful communist revolution been met or been founded by violence, but pretty much every revolution period. Do you think the French peasantry would have been wise to sit and wait for love to bring about liberte, egalite, fraternite? You are living in a dreamland if you think there will be nobody who opposes you with violence.

"Personally, I find your claim that communism is a "Christian system" to be ridiculous."

Definitely. Jesus never got involved with politics: "Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's, but give onto God what is God's"