Originally posted by Arrian
I know we didn't always back Israel the way we do now. But your comment that Israel is an exception because it survives w/o a security guarantee is contradicted by a) the massive amount of aid we give Israel and b) the large US military presence in the region, which few doubt would be brought to bear if Israel was really in danger of falling, and c) our decision not to take issue with Israel's nuclear weapons.
I have no problem with our withdrawl from Vietnam, and I would not call it appeasement. I don't think it is relevent to our discussion.
I see what you're getting at now: Britain decided to take a stand, and thus "caused" WWII. Continuing to appease Hitler in '39, however, would have been a mistake. Britain new it had to "throw down the gauntlet." Hitler was not going to stop gobbling up countries, and the UK & France finally figured that out. That the UK & France finally chose to oppose Hitlers' aggression does not make them responsible for the war. Hitler invaded Poland.
Had the UK and France decided not to fight over Poland, then Hitler would have gotten exactly what he wanted: a free hand in Eastern Europe to create his "lebensraum" (sorry if I butchered the spelling). He could have invaded and fought the USSR without a western front. There would still have been a huge war, with millions of casualties, not to mention the distinct possibility of an even more complete "final solution."
But if you want to believe that WWII was Britain's fault, go right ahead. I suppose the United States is actually to blame for the Pacific war, because we cut off Japan's steel? The attack on Pearl Harbor, after all, was simply a result of our failure to appease Japan, right? So obviously it was our fault.
-Arrian
I know we didn't always back Israel the way we do now. But your comment that Israel is an exception because it survives w/o a security guarantee is contradicted by a) the massive amount of aid we give Israel and b) the large US military presence in the region, which few doubt would be brought to bear if Israel was really in danger of falling, and c) our decision not to take issue with Israel's nuclear weapons.
I have no problem with our withdrawl from Vietnam, and I would not call it appeasement. I don't think it is relevent to our discussion.
I see what you're getting at now: Britain decided to take a stand, and thus "caused" WWII. Continuing to appease Hitler in '39, however, would have been a mistake. Britain new it had to "throw down the gauntlet." Hitler was not going to stop gobbling up countries, and the UK & France finally figured that out. That the UK & France finally chose to oppose Hitlers' aggression does not make them responsible for the war. Hitler invaded Poland.
Had the UK and France decided not to fight over Poland, then Hitler would have gotten exactly what he wanted: a free hand in Eastern Europe to create his "lebensraum" (sorry if I butchered the spelling). He could have invaded and fought the USSR without a western front. There would still have been a huge war, with millions of casualties, not to mention the distinct possibility of an even more complete "final solution."
But if you want to believe that WWII was Britain's fault, go right ahead. I suppose the United States is actually to blame for the Pacific war, because we cut off Japan's steel? The attack on Pearl Harbor, after all, was simply a result of our failure to appease Japan, right? So obviously it was our fault.
-Arrian
As to your second point, defensive alliances are supposed to deter war. In order to be effective, the attacker must know that he cannot win and will probably loose.
Obviously, Britain simply was not strong enough to deter Germany. Taking a stand launched WWII.
I believe Kennedy came to the same conclusion in his book, Why England Slept. Weakness invites attack. Weakness leads to war.
I believe we, the United States, have learned this lesson. We today believe in an invincible military primarily to avoid war.
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