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  • Physical evidence of Jesus found?

    Scholar claims oldest Jesus evidence
    - - - - - - - - - - - -
    By Richard N. Ostling

    Oct. 21, 2002 | WASHINGTON (AP) -- An inscription on a burial artifact recently discovered in Israel is "the first appearance of Jesus in the archaeological record," magazine editor Hershel Shanks announced Monday.

    Writing in the new issue of Shanks' Biblical Archaeology Review, Andre Lemaire, a specialist in ancient inscriptions at France's Practical School of Higher Studies, says it is "very probable" the find is an authentic reference to Jesus of Nazareth and he dates it to A.D. 63 -- just three decades after the crucifixion.

    Kyle McCarter, a Johns Hopkins University archaeologist, told a news conference that the identification is probable but he has "a bit of doubt."

    "We may never be absolutely certain. In the work I do we're rarely absolutely certain about anything," he said.

    That Jesus existed is not doubted by scholars, but what the world knows about him comes almost entirely from the New Testament. No physical artifact from the first century related to Jesus has been discovered and verified. Lemaire believes that has changed, though questions remain, such as where the piece with the inscription has been for more than 19 centuries.

    The inscription, in the Aramaic language, appears on an empty ossuary, or limestone burial box for bones. It reads: "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus." Lemaire dates the object to 63 A.D.

    Lemaire says the writing style, and the fact that Jews practiced ossuary burials only between 20 B.C. and A.D. 70, puts the inscription squarely in the time of Jesus and James, who led the early church in Jerusalem.

    All three names were commonplace, but he estimates that only 20 Jameses in Jerusalem during that era would have had a father named Joseph and a brother named Jesus.

    Moreover, naming the brother as well as the father on an ossuary was "very unusual," Lemaire says. There's only one other known example in Aramaic. Thus, this particular Jesus must have had some unusual role or fame -- and Jesus of Nazareth certainly qualified, Lemaire concludes.

    It's impossible, however, to prove absolutely that the Jesus named on the box was Jesus of Nazareth.

    The archaeology magazine says two scientists with the Israeli government's Geological Survey conducted a detailed microscopic examination of the surface patina and the inscription. They reported last month that there is "no evidence that might detract from the authenticity."

    The ossuary's owner also is requiring Lemaire to shield his identity, so the box's current location was not revealed.

    James is depicted as Jesus' brother in the Gospels and head of the Jerusalem church in the Book of Acts and Paul's epistles.

    The first century Jewish historian Josephus recorded that "the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ, James by name," was stoned to death as a Jewish heretic in A.D. 62. If his bones were placed in an ossuary that would have occurred the following year, dating the inscription around A.D. 63.

    The Rev. Joseph Fitzmyer, a Bible professor at Catholic University who studied photos of the box, agrees with Lemaire that the writing style "fits perfectly" with other first century examples and admits the joint appearance of these three famous names is "striking."

    "But the big problem is, you have to show me the Jesus in this text is Jesus of Nazareth, and nobody can show that," Fitzmyer says.

    The owner of the ossuary never realized its potential importance until Lemaire examined it last spring. Shanks himself saw the box Sept. 25.

    Lemaire told The Associated Press the owner wants anonymity to avoid time-consuming contacts with reporters and religious figures. The owner also wants to avoid the cost of insurance and guarding the artifact, and has no plans to display it publicly, he said.
    Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

  • #2
    Hmmm.. interesting.
    "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
    -Bokonon

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    • #3
      Surely the only people who would care about finding 'physical evidence of Jesus' would be christians and christians should not be looking for bones as according to their relgion they are supposed to believe that Jesus rose from the dead. I'm assuming that was a permanent rise. Otherwise it's a bit ****. He dies one day, rises another, dies a couple of weeks down the road.
      A witty quote proves nothing. - Voltaire

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      • #4
        Guess you didn't read the article did you Fab. No-one said they were Jesus' bones.
        One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

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        • #5
          Faboba: Jesus was (maybe) an historical figure, so any anthropologist would certainly care about finding physical evidence of his existence.

          Also, I'm not a Christian, but even I know enough about the Resurrection story to say you haven't a clue as to what you're talking about in that regard...especially since we're not talking about bones here, anyway!
          Tutto nel mondo è burla

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          • #6
            Ah, the bones of Jim Davidson.

            (Old joke. Since Jesus' family was descended from King David, they were almost certainly Davidsons).
            "Paul Hanson, you should give Gibraltar back to the Spanish" - Paiktis, dramatically over-estimating my influence in diplomatic circles.

            Eyewerks - you know you want to visit. No really, you do. Go on, click me.

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            • #7
              Well as a single person who influenced this world the most that would be some discovery to get some kind of physical proof about his family or him.
              Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
              GW 2013: "and juistin bieber is gay with me and we have 10 kids we live in u.s.a in the white house with obama"

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              • #8
                Well it does seem to corroborate Josephus's account of James' death.

                BTW, Josephus is the only non biblical account of Jesus of which I am aware. Are there any other?

                Also, Josephus may have been old enough to be in Jerusalem at the time of Christ's death. He seems to know of Christ by either first or second-hand knowledge.
                http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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                • #9
                  *mutter*
                  A witty quote proves nothing. - Voltaire

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                  • #10
                    BTW, Josephus is the only non biblical account of Jesus of which I am aware. Are there any other?
                    Yeah there's other ones, but they're later than Josephus and are all along the lines of "those crazy christians say X." Also you can't trust the mentions of Jesus in Josephus since they've been obviously screwed with by Christians (for example Josephus wasn't a christian which is pretty obvious yet he calls Jesus the Messiah which is a blatant interpolation which makes it hard to tell how of the rest is equally suprius).
                    Stop Quoting Ben

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                    • #11
                      Jesus had a brother?
                      Hope he wasn't older, or the whole "virgin" Mary consept goes down the drain.
                      CSPA

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                      • #12
                        I thought he called him miraclemaker. Here is the refference to the text.

                        Apparently there is an Arab version as well at the bottom.

                        Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
                        GW 2013: "and juistin bieber is gay with me and we have 10 kids we live in u.s.a in the white house with obama"

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                        • #13
                          People can claim whatever they want. Doesn't make it true.
                          For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                          • #14
                            hmmmmm and if this is true that undermines that catholic idea that jesus didn't have brothers and that the bible REALLY meant that james was a cousin or something...
                            Stop Quoting Ben

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Gangerolf
                              Jesus had a brother?
                              Hope he wasn't older, or the whole "virgin" Mary consept goes down the drain.

                              All christian believe that Mary was a virgin when Jesus was born because of the holy spirit.
                              But Catholics believe that she kept her virginity forever, and protestants believe that after the birth of Jesus, she and Joseph were a normal couple with all the things that it implies, and that James and John (2 of the apostles) were biological brothers of Jesus.
                              Periodista : A proposito del escudo de la fe, Elisa, a mí me sorprendía Reutemann diciendo que estaba dispuesto a enfrentarse con el mismísimo demonio (Menem) y después terminó bajándose de la candidatura. Ahí parece que fuera ganando el demonio.

                              Elisa Carrio: No, porque si usted lee bien el Génesis dice que la mujer pisará la serpiente.

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