The worse U.S. President

[NeOmega]

Originally posted by David Floyd


I don't have statistics but I seriously doubt smokers are disproportionately poor.

Oh yeah. Smokers are definitely of the lower classes, and as taxes increase they continue to lose more and more capital that they could be investing elsewhere during their short lives.

It is a vicious cycle, and it's getting worse, no thanks to the U.S. and state governments.


Okay, I'll edit so I don't post a fourth time, but regarding Adams...
Alien and Sedition Acts were one of the most blatant attempts at tyranny so soon after the revolution. He tried to limit free speach, and had journalists thrown in jail for criticizing the government. Luckily America still had it's newborn eyes open.

[David Floyd]

They are. Smoking in the US shows a near-perfect negative correlation with income. Do a Google search using Smoking and "Income Level" (in quotes) as your keywords, and you'll get reams of reliable data on this.

I stand corrected, then.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The intent of the laws were very different, and the whiskey tax was far more oppressive than the cigaratte taxes is today.

It was an excise tax. Hamilton picked a bunch of profitable businesses to tax. There was no intent to 'screw the poor'.

Btw, the government taxes cigarettes not for 'health and safety', but because they can make tons of money off an addiction.

[Ned]

I stand corrected Pioneer and Saint Marcus - Clearly is not that Germany has gone pacifist, it is that Germany has seen the wisdom of Neville Chamberlain.

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by Ned
I stand corrected Pioneer and Saint Marcus - Clearly is not that Germany has gone pacifist, it is that Germany has seen the wisdom of Neville Chamberlain.

I always love it when you bring this up Ned. Just for the benefit of everyone else, please explain again how Hussein and Iraq are like Hitler and Germany, other than both being brutal dictators? Is it all the additional territory Hussein is demanding or simply taking? Is it his retaking of occupied territory? Is it the undeniable proof of rearmament?

And then, for further clarification, please equate the lack of will to attack Iraq outright with the handing over territory belonging to other sovereign states.

I, for one, don't recall any European leader stating that Hussein should be allowed to have NBC weapons. Seems to me that they just want some proof in the form of weapons inspections before declaring war on a country.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Btw, the government taxes cigarettes not for 'health and safety', but because they can make tons of money off an addiction.

And then sue to make another ton from the very same companies that make the products they tax. It's quite an ingenious way to double dip at the till.

[NeOmega]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
And then sue to make another ton from the very same companies that make the products they tax. It's quite an ingenious way to double dip at the till.

More ingenious, sales tax from cigarettes in WA state have just about doubled in the past 10 years. Not to mention the huge taxes levied now on a pack of cigarettes. Even "funnier" is now all that money won in lawsuits has almost all been spent! On non-health care related items

I don't smoke anymoe, but if I get emphysema, or lung cancer, I am suing Washington to put me in the best of care, because I funded it through when I did smoke.

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by NeOmega

To me that means the country was better off the less a president "accomplished"

Accomplishment doesn't necessarily mean taking actions or passing legislations wantonly. A good president knows when to interfere and when not to. As the leader of a nation, it's totally irresponsible to let everything run its natural course, but it can also get messy when hyperactive presidents are trying to create a "legacy" for themselves.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Vlad Antlerkov

IMHO, both Wilson and Eisenhower could have pre-empted Vietnam (the former by granting "self-determination" to at least Indochina, the latter by backing Ho Chi Minh and trying to turn him against Russia-- or at least installing someone more competent than Diem).

IIRC at the time that Ho Chi Minh tried to meet with Wilson in Paris he was only a busboy at a restaurant. Seriously, how many world leaders would take the time at a hotly contested negotiation to talk with the hired help about a homeland that was not an issue at the conference?

Other than failing to advocate self-determination for non-whites during his Presidency did Wilson do anything during his Presidency that stood out as a particularily racist act? Bear in mind that no one else at the Paris conference seemed to have even remotely consider such issues. No President before FDR ever took a stand against racial discrimination and predjudice. It is unfair to single out Wilson for not being decades ahead of his time. It should be remembered however that he supported General Pershing's policy of allowing black men to participate in the war in Europe.

[Dr Strangelove]

Warren Harding is arguably the worst behaved of all the Presidents.

[St Leo]

Truman nuked the dirty Japs because they attacked us first without any provocation

A trade embargo that deprived Japan of a vital supply of oil doesn't count as provocation, eh?

[connorkimbro]

out of those, lyndon johnson, but you didn't even list a few that i think are worse than him. the roosevelts, and lincoln, and maybe a few others that don't immediately spring to mind.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Kontiki


I always love it when you bring this up Ned. Just for the benefit of everyone else, please explain again how Hussein and Iraq are like Hitler and Germany, other than both being brutal dictators? Is it all the additional territory Hussein is demanding or simply taking? Is it his retaking of occupied territory? Is it the undeniable proof of rearmament?

And then, for further clarification, please equate the lack of will to attack Iraq outright with the handing over territory belonging to other sovereign states.

I, for one, don't recall any European leader stating that Hussein should be allowed to have NBC weapons. Seems to me that they just want some proof in the form of weapons inspections before declaring war on a country.

I simply love it when you guys say inspectors, not war.

Why do you think Saddam is willing to allow inspectors back in the first place?

[Rufus T. Firefly]

You know whose missing here? Franklin Pierce. I'd pick him over Buchanan, because he did all theh same things wrong vis-a-vis the looming Civil War and was even less effectual in other areas. Pierce for president who did the most damage; Harding for president who most abused the office.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by St Leo
A trade embargo that deprived Japan of a vital supply of oil doesn't count as provocation, eh?

No. We are under no special obligation to trade with anyone.