Guns and freedom

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


Get a bolt action, and keep the bolt with you. Or a trigger lock and you keep the keys with you at all times. If you're not concerned with insta-plinking burglars, there's no problem at all in storing a weapon in total safety.

Hell, do the trigger lock, then put in in a locked case. Even if someone goes nuts, it'll take 'em so long to find all the keys and unlock the thing that they'll have cooled down by then.

Thanks Mike

Yeah, if I get firearm it'll probably be for hunting little varmits like rabbits and foxes and I'll get a bolt action .22.

I'll get a rifle safe and also lock down the bolt in another secret place and ammo in another place so even the most determined little boy is gonna have trouble putting it all together and/or I can get out of the house before Mrs Horse puts it together

I think its kind of important to teach your kids how to shoot and rifle safety at some stage, particularly the safety side of it.

[David Floyd]

The bottom line is that guns do not equal freedom.

Oh, certainly not. Guns by themselves don't equal anything of the sort. However, the ability to legally own a gun is certainly an aspect of freedom. You can't deny that - you can take the position that gun ownership is one freedom we shouldn't have, but you can't say that gun ownership isn't a freedom.

As for restrictions on gun ownership, I can't see how anyone could possibly be against some form or another.

That's probably because you've grown up in a society that is even worse than the US in terms of lack of respect for freedom to own a gun. Basically, you're against gun ownership because you've been taught (and either, and probably both, the conscious and unconscious level) your whole life, on the basis of living in a nation without strong gun rights, that guns are "bad".

Just a guess, but I imagine a correct one.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by korn469


horsie...

i guess we value hardy individualism slightly more in this part of the world

Oh come on - you are talking to an Australian

The bottom line is you have a different history and firearms don't have the association with freedom and constitutional rights here that they do in your country.

Its your country. None of my business what you do over there

Actually I personally like firearms a lot too.

[Ramo]

You should take a stats class - the chances of peaceful citizens getting caught up in gun violence are astronomically higher in the United States than any other Western country.

Well, that can be more attributable to the war on drugs than the high number of guns in the country. Regions of the US which with tougher gun restrictions still tend to have extremely high murder rates.

[David Floyd]

Regions of the US which with tougher gun restrictions still tend to have extremely high murder rates.

Washington DC, for example.

[Imran Siddiqui]

can someone do a comparison of the guns of the US goverment versus the guns of the US citizens?
i'd love to see some numbers...

And I'd love to see a comparison of the guns of the US government versus the guns of the Vietcong around the time period of the 1960s .

Because citizens in other Western countries do not have to put up with the daily threat of gun violence that you do.

Most Americans (including just about everyone I know) do not really fear gun violence any more than say... knife violence.

[MarkG]

If the people can't have them, they have no freedom.

does this also apply to drugs?

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

can someone do a comparison of the guns of the US goverment versus the guns of the US citizens?
i'd love to see some numbers...

And I'd love to see a comparison of the guns of the US government versus the guns of the Vietcong around the time period of the 1960s .

was vietcong part of the US in the 60s?

so, anyone with any stats???
what's our possibilities to defend our glorious country against a tyrannic goverment?

[Guardian]

Not sure what to think about these matters.

In Norway, the undisputed number 1 weapon for murders, robberies, etc. is a kitchen knife...

Granted, we don't have quite the same number of murders and robberies, and we also don't have quite the same number of idiots running around with guns over here...

Perhaps a few more guns could help keep the people with knives at bay, but do we really believe that?

-Or could it be that the people who are currently armed with knives would then be armed with guns and the rest of us would be in more trouble than ever...?

[loinburger]

Originally posted by Guardian
Perhaps a few more guns could help keep the people with knives at bay, but do we really believe that?

That probably won't work. The constant snowstorms in Norway would prevent you from seeing past the end of your nose in a fight, so a knife would be a much more practical weapon.

[Saint Marcus]

Homicide rate in the USA: 9.0 / 100,000
Homicide rate in the EU: 1.2 / 100,000

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by MarkG
was vietcong part of the US in the 60s?

so, anyone with any stats???
what's our possibilities to defend our glorious country against a tyrannic goverment?

Last I heard the total number of privately owned guns in the US exceeded 100 million. The US Army has less than 500,000 combat troops. In fact, I think it has fewer than 200,000.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

can someone do a comparison of the guns of the US goverment versus the guns of the US citizens?
i'd love to see some numbers...

And I'd love to see a comparison of the guns of the US government versus the guns of the Vietcong around the time period of the 1960s .

Because citizens in other Western countries do not have to put up with the daily threat of gun violence that you do.

Most Americans (including just about everyone I know) do not really fear gun violence any more than say... knife violence.

Garbage. Polls done in major US cities consistantly show that the fear of violence is the number one fear of the populace.

On a more cheerful note for you guys schools are now closed in Virginia from Ashland to Richmond. Schools hasve also been closed in various parts of norhtern Virginia and adjacent Maryland. Can you hear the freedom ringing in your ears, or is that just rifle fire? Hey, maybe they're all the same!

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by David Floyd


Washington DC, for example.

DC and Maryland have restrictions, Virginia does not. Viriginians happily sell guns to hoods hailing from everywhere from DC to Massachusetts. While we have background checking and three day waiting laws they do not apply to private sales. Consequently gun shows have become big business down here. Personally I wouldn't go outside on the days the gun shows are in town. One of the Yankee gangstas might decide to try out the merchandise.

Your observation merely points to the need for a national solution.

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by David Floyd


Oh, certainly not. Guns by themselves don't equal anything of the sort. However, the ability to legally own a gun is certainly an aspect of freedom. You can't deny that - you can take the position that gun ownership is one freedom we shouldn't have, but you can't say that gun ownership isn't a freedom.

I think the arguement being made, and the one I'm arguing against, is that having an armed populace automatically grants some level of protection from a tyranical, non-democratic government. I know your stance very well regarding "natural rights" and "freedoms", but that's just a semantics debate. However, I'm sure that you'll rebut that not having the right to have a firearm is a form of tyranny. Get over yourself.


[/QUOTE]That's probably because you've grown up in a society that is even worse than the US in terms of lack of respect for freedom to own a gun. Basically, you're against gun ownership because you've been taught (and either, and probably both, the conscious and unconscious level) your whole life, on the basis of living in a nation without strong gun rights, that guns are "bad".

Just a guess, but I imagine a correct one. [/QUOTE]

I take it, then, that you think that every single person, at any age, background (criminal, mentally disabled, etc.) or circumstance should be just as free to have a firearm as anyone else? If not, then you support some form of restrictions on gun ownership. The problem with your analysis, which I quite resent, by the way, is that you assume everyone should interpret "freedom" the same way you do. Some of us see freedom as a collective social cause, not purely individual.