Why I believe capitalism is morally wrong and evil...

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

SC

We've got a long way to got before a world economy resembles anything like an ordered system. As such the nearest thing you can compare the sytem to is an unordered organic system (ala teh Darwinism reference). I suppose if you wish to call it luck thats one interpretation, my interpretation would be one of statistical probability.

[Sava]

Ogie: Disagreeing is good... I encourage people to post intelligent responses like yours to further encourage debate. The only way I improve myself is by competing with others and learning from those smarter than me. That's why I don't want to be up here swatting flies . I'd get a lot stronger fighting a bear than I would a fruitfly (that is if the bear doesn't kill me). Well, maybe if the fruitflies became really smart and organized, but that sounds like a topic for some sci-fi discussion.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Not a prob Sava,

The analogies I used are prolly trite and overused but at least order my views of the world and its chaos.

I do find that some of the evils laid at the feet of a capitalistic economy (not that any truly exist) are more a tale of the bungling of US foreign policy though than attributable to the economic system. (Unlike others I see the US foreign policy a systematic set of blunders and incompetence verses grand conspiracy theories another topic another time)

Personally, I think true capitalism doesn't exist anywhere because in its true state it would be overly unstable via monopolistic tendencies. Only through outside influences does its excesses become curbed but again thats a subject for another post.

Og

PS. By the by I'm no bear, I'm just a big ol' Teddy bear.

[Jules]

Originally posted by Sava
Ogie: Disagreeing is good... I encourage people to post intelligent responses like yours to further encourage debate. The only way I improve myself is by competing with others and learning from those smarter than me. That's why I don't want to be up here swatting flies . I'd get a lot stronger fighting a bear than I would a fruitfly (that is if the bear doesn't kill me). Well, maybe if the fruitflies became really smart and organized, but that sounds like a topic for some sci-fi discussion.

Competition, eh? Sounds like a capitalist virtue to me.

Wait, that's it! Do not be deceived by this man. He's being bankrolled by the Rockefeller Trilateral Commission.

[DanS]

I skimmed this whole thread and still don't know where to start. So I won't.

[Roland]

"You pay people the absolute lowest amount of money they are willing to work for.

You charge people the absolute highest amount of money they are willing to pay for your goods/services."

The alternative would be kind of funny. If I have a product that has say 80 wage cost, and can sell at 100 - I should pay 100 in wage and sell it for 80 ?

You don't happen to have a stake in a bancruptcy law firm, Sava ?

[Sava]

ahh silly ROland, extremes are never the answer, you must find balance.

Jules, competition is not a capitalist virtue. It is a pseudo-virtue/ideal that never translates into the real world.

Competition is more of an evolution virtue. My mind constantly evolves due to competition with more advanced and intelligent minds.

[Sava]

Roland: Wages and labor costs in the majority of businesses rarely go over 25-35%... and usually around half of the labor "costs" are usually the multi-million dollar bonuses given to upper management; let alone the CEO bonuses and such.

[loinburger]

Originally posted by Sava
Disagreeing is good... I encourage people to post intelligent responses like yours to further encourage debate.

I call bull****. In the past you've displayed an inability (or perhaps unwillingness) to listen to logic or reasoned justifications. You've demonstrated that there's not much point in trying to have an intelligent discussion with you.

[Roland]

Originally posted by Sava
Roland: Wages and labor costs in the majority of businesses rarely go over 25-35%... and usually around half of the labor "costs" are usually the multi-million dollar bonuses given to upper management; let alone the CEO bonuses and such.

I didn't know your ass is a fountain of numbers.

If management sucks up half of labour costs, the company goes bust very quickly.

If a business has around 30 % wage costs than that is because it buys supplies - supplies which, again, include wage costs.

The share of labour vs capital from the total value-add in the economy is about 80:20. Hence my example.

If you can't tell the difference between turnover (or total cost, whatever you are assuming) and value-add, your problem.

[Jules]

Originally posted by loinburger
I call bull****. In the past you've displayed an inability (or perhaps unwillingness) to listen to logic or reasoned justifications. You've demonstrated that there's not much point in trying to have an intelligent discussion with you.

Sava is Fez?

[DinoDoc]

Yes.

[loinburger]

[Lord Merciless]

He should go to North Korea to learn some lessons.

[DrSpike]

You know its so easy to bash capitalism. Company A is making a profit, so it must be (a) exploiting it's workers or (b) exploiting it's customers.

Of course both (a) and (b) are equally as stupid as the first post in this thread. Company A is making a profit because it is producing the very items that its customers demand. Crap product leads disappearance from market.......good product leads to profits........that's how the market economy works.

Does a firm make profits from driving down wages in relation to marginal product. Of course not, labour markets are characterised by competition as well.......and labour goes to where it is needed to produce the goods that customers (labour from another perspective in aggregate) want.

Capitalism has its flaws by any reckoning........but they are far from the flaws the initial post here identified.