Announcement

**Palaiologos** · October 21, 2002, 05:03

If we didn't do it they would do it to us first.

**notyoueither** · October 21, 2002, 05:11

That sounds like a good reason. Or not.

**Rasbelin** · October 21, 2002, 05:20

So why should the Greeks be the one doing ethnic cleansing?

Nationalism, my friend.

Palaiologos,

I'm just playing with this theoretical idea of a sovereign Macedonia. It's just a mindgame that you shouldn't take too seriously.

**VetLegion** · October 21, 2002, 20:20

is info on this page accurate?

Macedonia for the Macedonians

http://www.makedonija.info/aegean-chrono.html

An examination of Macedonian issues including: independence of the Republic of Macedonia, occupation of Aegean Macedonia by Greece, occupation of Pirin Macedonia by Bulgaria, human rights violations against Macedonians, etc.

it would suggest truth about Macedonians is completely different then what the local Greeks suggest.

if it is not accurate, can you disprove point by point?

**MarkG** · October 21, 2002, 20:55

hmm this is mostly generic claims ("Greece refers to", for example. where? who? in which documents?)
some more specific answers...

1) population exchanges and the league of nations:
a) "macedonians" are "expelled", greeks are "transplanted"

b) the exchange under the Neuilly Treaty was voluntary. more details here http://history.macedonia.gr/faq.htm#31

2) city names: http://history.macedonia.gr/faq.htm#18

3) 1976-74 junta: of course a dictatorship had no place in the council of europe! meanwhile "colonization" of the "aegean macedonia" and city name changes continue after 70 years(one would think this process should be over by that time)

**Alexander's Horse** · October 21, 2002, 22:29

Why do you care about this so much Mark?

The ancient Greeks thought the Macedonians were uncouth and uncivilised and little better than barbarians who destroyed the Greek states and the dream of Hellas.

Of course then Alexander comes along and everyone wants to claim him

Don't you think for the sake of peace in the Balkans people should give up these childish historical disputes?

**Imran Siddiqui** · October 22, 2002, 00:50

It's because Alexander was the only guy from that region worth a bucket of spit. It's hero envy

.

**The Pioneer** · October 22, 2002, 02:30

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave

Ah not just English blokes... most of the world already 'knows' that

you should have revised the history while you still could calling him Alexander the Greek

... it is too late to complain now.

Ok who could have guessed that a country will arise that will call themselves Macedonia again... but that's life... or history now too. I guess it would be easier if they were in South America and claiming that they are the descendants of Alexander

:

I haven't read the whole thread. But you are partly right. Greece though knew that Tito called the province now known as FYROM Macedonia. Heck, even older Olympic Air maps had that place called Macedonia. Back then nobody really cared and us contemporary Greeks short sighted as we always are did not give a damn. Later one, in the beginning of the 90s it became again a topic of "National" interest. But the handling on the Greek side does not change the fact that he was Greek. Actually BBC had a special on him a few months ago where a reporter followed his footsteps form Vergina and Pella to the East. He always refered to him as Greek.

Anyway, Marko it will not change things by getting upset about every little article or news piece. Lots of people have been, are and will be ignorant and/or serve special interests. But however they twisted it is wrong.

So long...

**The Pioneer** · October 22, 2002, 02:37

Originally posted by VetLegion

Macedonia should be renamed Usurpia

and greece should be renamed Paranoia

A little OT but I like when English speaking people try to use Greek words!? Same goes for Germans and many others!

So long...

Maybe we should do like the Americans patend every word and charge the languag/country a fee everytime they use the word?!

**The Pioneer** · October 22, 2002, 02:45

Originally posted by Kropotkin

Sure, it might be wrong of the former macedonian govement to make the claims they did on history (although Greece should stop living on what might have happend two milleniums ago) and what the brittish sports press wrote was garbage.

Well it's more like the unlucky son that didn't really make anything out of his life despite the family having a great tradition. It's the lack of accomplishment of contemporary Greeks that does that. But we will never be greater than them if we keep living in the past. Although, I must admit that there has been some progress lately.

So long....

**MarkG** · October 22, 2002, 03:09

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Why do you care about this so much Mark?

unfortunately i dont know much about australian history in order to give you an example...

Don't you think for the sake of peace in the Balkans people should give up these childish historical disputes?

peace?
1) even at the time of the most craziest claims of FYROM, in the their first couple of years of indepedence, never did Greece threaten with use of force
2) despite the remaining issue of the name(they've dropped the use of the vergina star(see my avatar) in their flag and more importantly the "liberational" claims in their constitution) Greece is the biggest investor in FYROM
so not to sound overly patriotic, but me thinks Greece has handled this pretty peacefully

**notyoueither** · October 22, 2002, 03:11

If you can't beat 'em, buy 'em.

Very American of you.

**MarkG** · October 22, 2002, 03:20

they still havent sold out though

maybe we should go the turkish way(invade and spend the next 30 years discussing on whether or not to move out, despite UN decisions)

**notyoueither** · October 22, 2002, 03:38

Nah. [If] they sell, they will be happy. If you take, they will never forget. Up the bid.

**Alexander's Horse** · October 22, 2002, 03:44

Originally posted by MarkG
unfortunately i dont know much about australian history in order to give you an example...

So may examples - we never get the credit for anything

peace?
1) even at the time of the most craziest claims of FYROM, in the their first couple of years of indepedence, never did Greece threaten with use of force
2) despite the remaining issue of the name(they've dropped the use of the vergina star(see my avatar) in their flag and more importantly the "liberational" claims in their constitution) Greece is the biggest investor in FYROM
so not to sound overly patriotic, but me thinks Greece has handled this pretty peacefully

I thought they only called themselves Macedonia because they didn't know what to call themselves

They don't seriously claim to be a successor state to the ancient macedonians do they?

Announcement

BBC Sport rapes history

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment