The Economist: Survey of Greece.

[Bereta_Eder]

albanians were though. same difference.

[Boris Godunov]

batkiss, this is depressing to see you in such a state. What happened to you to give you such a rampant sense of inferiority? Did your mother not love you as a child? It's so painfully obvious in all your xenophobic and nationalist rantings. You don't feel worthy unless you can equate other people to Nazis to raise your own esteem. That's such a shame.

I suggest therapy, or maybe hypnosis. Perhaps a licenses psychotherapist can get to the bottom of your delusional fits of self-loathing. I'm sure everyone here would like to see you rehabilitated into a rational, tolerant human being. We're pulling for you!

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by paiktis22
albanians were though. same difference.

Case closed. Such blatant racism. Tsk.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by paiktis22
dashi, and how did you come to this conclusion?

I just call it like it is.

[Bereta_Eder]

dashi, then you have no arguments to back your position.

boris, why do u have to revert to personal attacks and paint an accomodating picture of myself in your head?
that's quite sad on your part.
did you become gay because your uncle sexually abused you when you were little and now you want more? was your mom too authoritative for you to handle? couldnt you live up to the expectations of your dad and be a man?

that's a very easy and low form of attack


dinodoc why dont you read some real magazines like the economist?

arent you tired of milking antigreek hate pages?

we know well, we have "affectionate" neighboors.

still i think your time would be better spend if you read magazines like the economist if u want info about greece.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by paiktis22
dashi, then you have no arguments to back your position.

Pot. Kettle.

boris, why do u have to revert to personal attacks and paint an accomodating picture of myself in your head?
that's quite sad on your part.

But calling people Nazis is okay? Please.

that's a very easy and low form of attack

Which I suppose is why you use it all the time, since you're not bright enough to do much better?

[Bereta_Eder]

calling you a nazi sympathizer (or better, apologist) is not a personal attack. it is my way of leading you to the light and eventual soul salvation.

the first step is to accept that you're a germannazi freak.

i'm still working on it. it is the first step but also the most difficult.

[Boris Godunov]

Lessee...which of the two of us have been banned for posting racist hate speech?

Hmm, not me...but you have!

We're still waiting for your own acceptance of being a Turkophobic hater. It will do you so much good, batty.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by paiktis22
dinodoc why dont you read some real magazines like the economist?

Will the Athens News do?

Athens News: Stereotyping Albanians in Greece

FRIDAY , 27 JULY 2001
No. 12920

Greece's largest minority complain of being dogged by negative stereotypes and racism

BY KATHY TZILIVAKIS

Albanian bus hijacker Flamur Pisli was shot dead by Albanian police on May 28, 1999

THEY are possibly the most unpopular foreigners living in this country. For most Greeks, Albanians are bad news.

"There was a day when we could sleep with our doors unlocked," says an elderly woman who lives in the mainly industrial town of Aspropyrgos, west of Athens. "You can't be too careful these days because there are many Albanians here. They gather at the main square to find jobs and if they don't get work they break into homes and rob you... Why don't the police just take them all back where they came from?"

This woman's hostility towards the hundreds of thousands of migrant workers from neighbouring Albania is shared by many other Greeks, who feel that crime is on the rise. Compared to other foreigners living and working here - Filipinos, Nigerians, Kurds, Poles and Pakistanis - Albanians are the least liked.

They are thought of as unskilled, destitute, violent and untrustworthy. Despite numerous statistics showing otherwise, Albanians have been blamed for the reported rise in crime in recent years. Albanian migrants and human rights advocates say this is unfair. According to recent statistics from the public order ministry, Albanians and other migrants commit a small number of crimes. Out of 8,042 break-ins in 1999, Albanians were found to be responsible for 1,617, and other migrants (Romanians, Russians, Bulgarians, Iraqis and Poles) for about 950. Greeks carried out the remaining 5,475 offences. Similarly, out of the 1,324 people who were charged with illegal weapons possession in 1999, 1,126 were Greek, 139 were Albanians and the rest were Russians, Romanians and Bulgarians.

Why, then, are Albanians given a bad name? One of the reasons is a series of high-profile crimes, notably two bus hijackings in 1999. These incidents gave rise to a general public concern about the evils of illegal immigration, especially from neighbouring Albania. "Society still considers Albanians to be the 'rotten' migrants," George Levandis of the Greek branch of SOS Racisme, told the Athens News. "I believe that the root of this problem can be found in the numbers. Albanians are simply the largest group of foreigners and Greeks feel threatened by them because there are so many of them in Greece. Another reason why Albanians are treated harshly by Greeks might be because of the tense relationships between the two countries - there are people of Greek origin in Albania who have been treated quite negatively there."

Criminology experts have repeatedly rejected claims that Albanians are to blame for an increase in crime and numerous studies carried out by the public order ministry also show that a relatively small number of people belonging to this ethnic group are actually corrupt. According to leading criminologist Nestor E Courakis, the number of foreigners involved in crime is low, although it is also on the rise. He says that this shows that "the social and economic integration of foreigners into the Greek population has not achieved a desirable level". Public disapproval of Albanians seems unwavering.

Albanians are often the sole target of small- and large-scale police sweep operations against undocumented migrants. Hundreds of thousands were taken back to Albania during massive deportations in December 1991, June 1993, in the autumn of 1994 and in July 1999. Armed villagers in small towns, especially near border areas, have even rounded up and beaten Albanian migrants, whom they held responsible for break-ins in the areas.

"The Albanian migrant in Greece is portrayed as the illegal migrant," says Albanian national Gazmen Kaplani, an announcer for state radio ERA.

"I believe that there are some newspapers that have handled such issues with propaganda that goes beyond racial hatred. That is, they constructed this image of Albanians as the absolute evil." Kaplani added that such stereotypes have fostered a racist hysteria against Albanian migrants. "The media have exaggerated the crimes committed by foreigners, especially Albanians," he noted.

The vast majority of the estimated 500,000 Albanian migrants in Greece are employed as manual labourers on construction sites and farms. For the average Albanian living an honest life in Greece, negative stereotypes are difficult to live with. One man from Gjirokaster says it makes him angry when people judge him before they meet him. "I am not a thief or a murderer," he says. "It's just not fair. What ever happened to being innocent until proven guilty. Albanians are always guilty until they can prove themselves innocen t."

An Athens police officer, who spoke to the Athens News on condition of anonymity, said that "Albanians are Albanians". What did he mean? "No matter how you look at it, they are more involved in crime than any other foreigners. We never hear about a Filipino burglar... It is no secret that thousands of prisoners escaped from Albania's jails and came to Greece. But, it's very important to note that Albanians are usually hired by Greek crooks to do the dirty work."

While a significant number of Greeks appear to believe that Albanian migrants pose a threat, foreigners living in Greece strongly disagree. Many representatives of migrant groups believe that Albanians do not deserve all the blame and that their supposed inclination towards crime has been blown out of proportion by the media and those advocating an anti-immigrant platform.

"When I first came to Greece in the 1970s there was no xenophobia," says Egyptian community representative Magdy Helmy. "There were fewer migrants. The situation changed with the mass arrival of Albanians. That's when society started to associate foreigners with crime."

"I do not believe in judging an entire nation of people based on the actions of one person," says Patrick Odeh, a member of the Athens-based Nigerian Community Organisation. "It is unfair to Albanians and all other migrants in Greece."

Joe Valencia, the president of KASAPI-Hellas (Unity of Filipino Migrant Workers in Greece) agrees with Odeh. "I think that there are a lot of negative attitudes even from people who are supposed to be democratic in their orientation," he explains. "This is very unfair. When Albanians commit crimes, it does not represent the majority of Albanians who are hard-working, responsible parents and who really want to make a better life in Greece."

ATHENS NEWS , 27/07/2001 , page: A04
Article code: C12920A041

[Boris Godunov]

DD, that's terrible. Those quotes from Greeks could be from Berlin 1939.

[Bereta_Eder]

it is always the innocents who get nailed... sad but true.

still i wasnt banned for that. BTW you were banned too, i dont know why, but i can imagine.


in any case we are talking about the real perpetrators of hate speech which is you, unfortunately in utter oblivion of it too.

come on chap, accept it an make your way to the light.

[Bereta_Eder]

DD everything they say is true.

boris, see? it was the GERMANS in berlin, the germans... yep.. your ancestors. not the greeks. sink that deep into your consciousness boris so that you may free your soul eventually

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by paiktis22
it is always the innocents who get nailed... sad but true.

still i wasnt banned for that. BTW you were banned too, i dont know why, but i can imagine.

I wasn't banned for anything remotely related to racist hate speech, as I never take part in such things. You should be ashamed of yourself for your participation in that thread. It was really awful of you.

If you weren't such a xenophobic hater, I'm sure things would go so much easier for you in life.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by paiktis22
DD everything they say is true.

Like I said earlier. Albanians in Greece suffer from widespread racism and police repression.

[Bereta_Eder]

and if you werent gay boris you could be happy at last .it is your unnatural position (in life) that creates your misery.

see? i told u personal attacks are a piece of cake.

BTW why did you get banned if i may ask?

were nazis involved in any way (or friendship for them )