Bloodbath in Gaza

[Saint Marcus]

The only thing that gets me was some of the stuff i mentioned earlier, about treating both sides equally, and how a lot of people don't.

don't you think we should expect more from the israelis, simply because they're a democracy?

Isn't NATO opperating in Afghanistan? I would have sworn that the member states invoked Article 5 after the 9/11 attacks.

No, no NATO operation in Afghanistan. Also, article 5 can't apply to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

[Chris 62]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Note to self (not biased), read entire thread before commenting.

Don't feel bad Che, I did pick on Orange to prove a point, and I shouldn't have, cause he's basically a decent guy.

You were just trying to be fair, something that Communists aern't usually known for!

[GePap]

In all honesty, i intellectually feel horror at the killing of civilians, but do i deeply care? No, for too many people die in so many places that only a fool really cares. The fact is that violence in the ME is very low-key. Only 2500 dead, at most, since 2000, and only 5000 at most since 1987. In just 2 years, there were ten times the death in Eritrea, ethiopia war, and its no comparison to countless other wars around the world.

Hell, the entire Arab-Israeli conflict, in all its forms could not have claimed more than 200,000 people in 50 years, which sounds like a huge number but realy isn't. I mean, more than that died in Central America during a shorter span of time. Hell, far more died in the Iran-Iraq war, and I have no clue how much the 'all Arabs' war in yemen killed, but it could be more. So why does this low intesity conflict get so mush freaking attention? I think because it is seen as a 'clash' of civs and blah blah.... that kind of crap, and if anything, that kind of attention detracts from people getting dwn to business.

I actually agree with Cris that outside intrvension is key to a peace deal. Just don't tell that to Siro or Eli.

[Chris 62]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus don't you think we should expect more from the israelis, simply because they're a democracy?

I think they are so panicicked right now that it's a bit much to expect them to act with restraint.

It isn't easy being surounded by people that would happily see you dead.

By the same token it isn't easy to see a well armed army outside your front door every day either, that's why it's encumbent upon us, the west, to help the two sides.

[Chris 62]

I'm glad you said that GePap, because it's important to understand that blaming Israel or Palestine for this or that just prolongs this hell, only by DOING something can this morass be ended.

I will support Israel forever, just like I support the Palestinians in their right to a home and a life of their chosing, but only WE can help them, and I wish we would have the balls to make a move.

[Saint Marcus]

I do think the west should intervene, but we need to go through the UN. The Europeans have repeatedly stated that they don't want NATO's role expanded to areas outside of Europe, because it wasn't designed for it. So the UN is the only solution.

[Chris 62]

It's difficult to get a UN force with the authority to act decisively, the alliance powers could do it more effectivly I think.

I would envision it this way:

Israel trusts the US, so US forces will take over all check points in israeli territory, The Palestinains trust the EU, so an equal EU force would take over the Palestinain side of said roadblocks, Israel can demobilize some of it's forces.

Palestine should be the entire west bank and Gaza strip area mentioned in the Oslo accords, with any leader they want (even Arafat, if that's who they want).

For now, Jerusalem should be a neutral zone, the desputed areas to be decided when tenstions ease.

Under NO circumstances would Israel be permitted to enter Palestine with military force, BY THE SAME TOKEN, no terrorist organization shall be allowed to exsist in Palestine (This MUST be enforced).

Say in a year or so, when tentions have eased, a meeting could begin talks over disputed areas.

[Saint Marcus]

if only it was possible

but alas, the current israeli governement refuses foreign intervention. I think Arafat wanted it though (which may be why Sharon&co don't want it).

[orange]

Still smarting over your rebuff over your previous lack of good judgement else where I see.

Do your self a favor boy, you were wrong once, don't continue it here.

You know...I could have easily tossed some of that little scuffle into this, and i admit i was considering it...but I decided against it, to be mature, and concentrate on the issue at hand. But if you're honestly so desparate as to bring up something that happened at ANOTHER forum - just bring it. Since your PM box was so conveniently full for the past few days, i'd be glad to post my thoughts about your *****ing and moaning here.

Then say it for ALL.

What the hell do you think I just did?? I don't agree with or 'look the other way' for ANY terrorism.

It seems you have an interesting defintion of terrorism.

Killing civilians is terrorism, regardless of whether it is led by a group of rebels or an established government.

That's bare, half-wit, if you want to pretend to an education, you will have to try harder.

No, I believe it's bear.

bear1 Pronunciation Key (bâr)
v. bore, (bôr, b r) borne, (bôrn, b rn) or born (bôrn) bear·ing, bears
v. tr.
To hold up; support.
To carry from one place to another; transport.
To carry in the mind; harbor: bear a grudge.
To transmit at large; relate: bearing glad tidings.
To have as a visible characteristic: bore a scar on the left arm.
To have as a quality; exhibit: “A thousand different shapes it bears” (Abraham Cowley).
To carry (oneself) in a specified way; conduct: She bore herself with dignity.
To be accountable for; assume: bearing heavy responsibilities.
To have a tolerance for; endure: couldn't bear his lying.
To call for; warrant: This case bears investigation.
To give birth to: bore six children in five years.
To produce; yield: plants bearing flowers.
To offer; render: I will bear witness to the deed.
To move by or as if by steady pressure; push: “boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past” (F. Scott Fitzgerald).

I admit, I could be wrong...but hey the dictionary seems to point to it as being correct...i've seen it used both ways.

Very good, as well you should be.

Thanks Dad, but as stated, I already denounce terrorism in all its forms.

No, you just don't have a problem with it.
Same old same old, it the shoe fits, wear it.

So you've just accepted that I denounce terrorism (Re: Very good, as well you should be) yet now you say that I don't have a problem with it. Make up your mind already, I have...

Oh, so now I'm a facist (that's how you spell it, BTW), your true colors seem to be showing through.
Shouldn't you be banned for such a comment?
On your own site you would, little deputy dawg.

No, it's fascist. I guess you really DO like making an asshole out of yourself
I guess Columbia just needed to meet a Greek-American quota or something.

If you'd prefer to make an asshole out of yourself, fine. Less typing for me.

What a lovely display of political correctness.
Of course, I was entirly serious, you could tell from the fair and balenced thread title.
Remember what I told you about lack of judgement reguarding intent?
You just showed it again.

How is it politically correct? I'm calling you out on the same **** you're calling me out on. You say I don't feel remorse for terrorism, which is unfounded. Then when i say that you don't express any concern, you say that I'm being politically correct. Please, think things out before you post, the conversation will go much more smoothly

The ultimate weapon of the bigot is to claim they can't tell right from wrong.
You failed that little test.
Your slip is showing sweety, that's what taking a stand means, it's not about spouting PC crap like you just attempted, it's about right and wrong.

It's wrong to shoot at innocent people. Palestinians, Israelis, Americans, orphans, quadriplegics
...nothing PC about this, pops. I've stated my opinion. Why don't you stop the patronizing act? You've obviously shown yourself to be my intellectual inferior...stand on your own to feet and defend your beliefs. If you can't do it just piss off, I don't feel like dealing with your trolls, tangents and side steps.

If you have anything of importance to say - just say it. Let's leave the petty CGN related stuff at the door, shall we?

[Chris 62]

The US should force the issue, we still have the clout to make Sharon listen, but the Bushies are preoccupied with Saddam, so they have little time for this.

[orange]

Chegitz - the best part is, recently, in a conversation (cough PM) with Chris, he spelled a word horribly wrong, and when I corrected him in the response, he proceeded to lecture me on the 'poor taste' and 'immaturity' on correcting someone on a spelling error.

I love the irony.

I'll post the quote if Chris is ok with it

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus
but alas, the current israeli governement refuses foreign intervention. I think Arafat wanted it though (which may be why Sharon&co don't want it).

The Israeli government has had bad experiences with foreign interventions in the past, ex. UN complicity with Hezbollah in Lebanon.

[orange]

the comment on Greek-American quotas was in poor taste, and I'm sure, inaccurate...I apologize

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by orange
the comment on Greek-American quotas was in poor taste, and I'm sure, inaccurate...I apologize

Naw, it was funny, and not meant in seriousness, I am sure...

[Chris 62]

Originally posted by orange
You know...I could have easily tossed some of that little scuffle into this, and i admit i was considering it...but I decided against it, to be mature, and concentrate on the issue at hand. But if you're honestly so desparate as to bring up something that happened at ANOTHER forum - just bring it. Since your PM box was so conveniently full for the past few days, i'd be glad to post my thoughts about your *****ing and moaning here.

Please, spare me your nonsense.

What the hell do you think I just did?? I don't agree with or 'look the other way' for ANY terrorism.

You went looking for a fight, and you got it.

Killing civilians is terrorism, regardless of whether it is led by a group of rebels or an established government.

That's right.

No, I believe it's bear.

Nope.

I admit, I could be wrong...but hey the dictionary seems to point to it as being correct...i've seen it used both ways.

I was wrong here, and if you read the whole thread, I appologised for it.

Thanks Dad, but as stated, I already denounce terrorism in all its forms.

Your mother will be so proud...

So you've just accepted that I denounce terrorism (Re: Very good, as well you should be) yet now you say that I don't have a problem with it. Make up your mind already, I have..

Hard to tell with you sometimes.

No, it's fascist. I guess you really DO like making an asshole out of yourself
I guess Columbia just needed to meet a Greek-American quota or something.

What was that comunity college you are attending again?

If you'd prefer to make an asshole out of yourself, fine. Less typing for me.

Never have, never will.

How is it politically correct? I'm calling you out on the same **** you're calling me out on. You say I don't feel remorse for terrorism, which is unfounded. Then when i say that you don't express any concern, you say that I'm being politically correct. Please, think things out before you post, the conversation will go much more smoothly

Yes, it would.

It's wrong to shoot at innocent people. Palestinians, Israelis, Americans, orphans, quadrapalegics
...nothing PC about this, pops.

That's "dad".

I've stated my opinion. Why don't you stop the patronizing act? You've obviously shown yourself to be my intellectual inferior...stand on your own to feet and defend your beliefs.

That will be the day! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

You have a really inflated opinion of yourself, maybe someday you might live up to a portion of it...a SMALL portion.
My superior...HA HA HA HA

If you can't do it just piss off, I don't feel like dealing with your trolls, tangents and side steps.

What you didn't expect was having it thrown in your face.
To f*cking bad.
For you.

If you have anything of importance to say - just say it. Let's leave the petty CGN related stuff at the door, shall we?

You should have read the whole thread...