Bush Speech

[Kepler]

Bush's speech Monday night had this effect on my opinions on Iraq:

zip.

I was ambivalent before and I'm ambivalent now. No new info to push me into the War camp, but nothing so egregiously dumb to push me into the Peace camp.

How bout you?

[Lincoln]

It was one of his better speeches. He said that we were a friend to the people of Iraq and that will no doubt be proved to be true over time.

[faded glory]

Anybody notice the line that makes it impossible for Saddam to comply?

"Let the witnesses and there families out of Iraq now so they can be debriefed by the UN"

Interesting..I think somthing has been going on behind the scenes. Saddam wont let his WoMD makers leave like that.

Also he made a very good link to terrorism. Abu Nidal, Apparently Al-Queda officials have fled to Iraq and even this year a top official went for chemotherapy in Bagdad.

[Kepler]

The "Iraqi people" line was a nice touch. The laundry list of aggrieved parties (Kurds, Turkemen, Shi'ia, etc...) was a bad idea, since the one thing that unites the Iraqi people is, if their faction were in power for a day they'd kill off all the others.

[Giancarlo]

It was an excellent speech and I hope the misled anti-war crowd will finally see their faults and swithc over. Saddam will never comply with those demands set so it is pretty much over for him.

Bush pretty much slammed the Iraqi Regime for charges many people forgot about. Iraq does harbor terrorist and does have weapons of mass destruction.

This speech strengthens my opinion that action must be taken and that includes the removal of Saddam Hussein.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Fez
It was an excellent speech and I hope the misled anti-war crowd will finally see their faults and swithc over. Saddam will never comply with those demands set so it is pretty much over for him.

Bush pretty much slammed the Iraqi Regime for charges many people forgot about. Iraq does harbor terrorist and does have weapons of mass destruction.

This speech strengthens my opinion that action must be taken and that includes the removal of Saddam Hussein.

Baah.

Anyway, I saw past this propaganda. It was just everything hes been saying for months wrapped in a neat little package.

Yes, Iraq probably harbours terrorists. So does Pakistan. Yes, Iraq probably has WoMB. Saddam has no incentive NOT to use them because bush will kill Saddam. Because Saddam has no incentive not to use them, he will use them and this is reason enough not to invade.

*Goes back to watching Heather Wilson on CSPAN talk about someones sense of humour*

[Giancarlo]

Oh please. You are just ignoring what is reality.

The evil murderous dictator must be removed and you don't want to have him removed. That in my mind is pure ignorance.

And this wasn't propaganda... actually none short than the truth. Bush did a very good job. Sure there are a few leftist radicals who love Saddam Hussein and will continue to oppose Bush entirely.

[Kepler]

Gee, at the risk of being demonized by Fez, I'll reiterate here that I am torn in two by this decision. On one hand, yes it is obviously war propaganda -- that's how an administration manufactures consent. And on that same hand, this is an administration I despise.

But on the other hand, I believe it is in the best interests of the US to have Saddam gone immediately or sooner. The reasons I question whether a pre-emptive is the best way of accomplishing this are pretty standard: (1) lousy precedent for international law, (2) pisses off the rest of the world even more against the US.

I won't make any disparaging remarks against either the pro- or con-invasion arguments. It's a difficult decision. Those do happen.

Divine intervention in the form of a sudden heart-attack would be appreciated, if anybody's listening...

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Fez
Oh please. You are just ignoring what is reality.

Baah me.

The evil murderous dictator must be removed and you don't want to have him removed. That in my mind is pure ignorance.

When did I say I didnt want him removed?!

I want him removed, but only if you can garentee that 1) They'll give Iraqis democracy, not install a dictatorship, 2) There will be *VERY LITTLE* loss of life and 3) It is the last option.

If Saddam in fact does have WoMD, he has no reason not to use it. We have friends in Israel, I know someone in Kuwait. What if Iraq truely has nukes? I dont want to see Kuwait city exploding, nor do i want to see Haifa go up in smoke. Again, he has no reaosn not to use them, so he probably WILL use them if hes cornered and about to die.

Also, we still haven't even tried the UN. Lets let it do its job......If that doesnt work, then lets try other things.

And this wasn't propaganda... actually none short than the truth. Bush did a very good job. Sure there are a few leftist radicals who love Saddam Hussein and will continue to oppose Bush entirely.

Let me gues.....Anyone who doesnt support bush is a Saddam-Lover and an America-Hater?

[Giancarlo]

I won't demonize you Kepler. I just am angry at the people who don't want to take action.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Tassadar5000


Baah me.

A sheep? Bahh...bahha...bahhhaa...bahha..

I want him removed, but only if you can garentee that 1) They'll give Iraqis democracy, not install a dictatorship, 2) There will be *VERY LITTLE* loss of life and 3) It is the last option.

How can I promise any of that? I am not President. Anyways I think you are referring to the US... considering Bush's speech I think democracy will be attained and loss of life will be minimal because Iraqi generals do not like Saddam.

I dont want to see Kuwait city exploding, nor do i want to see Haifa go up in smoke. Again, he has no reaosn not to use them, so he probably WILL use them if hes cornered and about to die.

Well the US would of got those weapons by then wouldn't they? And if he even thinks about attacking Israel... his days will be numbered meaning he won't survive.

Also, we still haven't even tried the UN. Lets let it do its job......If that doesnt work, then lets try other things.

The US is trying the UN.

Let me gues.....Anyone who doesnt support bush is a Saddam-Lover and an America-Hater?

Well anybody who does not support America or the facts.

[faded glory]

"Again, he has no reaosn not to use them, so he probably WILL use them if hes cornered and about to die."

So you admit he probably has them. But currently has no reason to use. Yet, you seem to fear that if he's cornered...he will use them.

Smells like fear and a case of the "Dont rock the boat mentality" to me.

Suppose I were Saddam and turned the tables..and Said I will use these weapons if Country X does not lift sanctions asap. Since you were bluffing the last time around.

[Giancarlo]

I think the other side is starting to tremble... they felt the facts hit them right in the head and didn't expect it.

[faded glory]

I felt somthing else hit my head just now. It was my Civ3 Disk case falling off the shelf. And then it cut my lip when I tried to put in. Talk about bad luck..

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Fez


A sheep? Bahh...bahha...bahhhaa...bahha..

Quoted and saved.

How can I promise any of that? I am not President. Anyways I think you are referring to the US... considering Bush's speech I think democracy will be attained and loss of life will be minimal because Iraqi generals do not like Saddam

Yes yes, whenever I refer to "you" i usually mean United States (although I could mean you.....you just have to take it in context)

Well the US would of got those weapons by then wouldn't they?

and if even one gets through?

And if he even thinks about attacking Israel... his days will be numbered meaning he won't survive.

Hahaha! Do you really think we'll let him live?! Hahahaha!!

The US is trying the UN.

Other than the fact that its Going to try to block ANY inspections unless they meet US demands. The US doesnt want peace....it wants war. And it wants war now.

Well anybody who does not support America or the facts.

And who says what America wants? I live in America....so I obviously support america. The facts are that 1) America is not even hinting of going after Pakistan and 2) Trying to begin a war that doesnt need to be fought. Those are the facts.