Longshoremen strike

[Felch]

What does it matter if America isn't in industry? What does it matter if we aren't in agriculture? Those are fields for less-developed economies.

As long as we can exist in a world economic community based on free trade and cooperation between management and labor, we'd be fine.

It doesn't matter if industrial jobs are declining in the United States and rising in other countries. If they're better at it, or are willing to do it cheaper, then that's fine. The problems arise when workers are exploited, not when they work for less than us (Bear in mind things like purchasing power or their income).

I'm not down with this, "America needs to have farmers/industrial workers." All that results in is a system of tariffs and other restrictions that keep less developed economies from being able to catch up with us. We need to relax and realize that American labor is simply too well educated to plow fields and manufacture I-beams. Our realms are commerce and research, and other fields that are suited to our strengths.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Spoken like a true free-marketeer!

[faded glory]

"What does it matter if America isn't in industry? What does it matter if we aren't in agriculture? Those are fields for less-developed economies."


rigghhtt... Just remember that when the only jobs available are deep-frying chicken and waiting tables and maybe if your lucky you can become an entertainer.


"As long as we can exist in a world economic community based on free trade and cooperation between management and labor, we'd be fine."

Pipe dreams...
"It doesn't matter if industrial jobs are declining in the United States and rising in other countries. If they're better at it, or are willing to do it cheaper, then that's fine. The problems arise when workers are exploited, not when they work for less than us (Bear in mind things like purchasing power or their income)."

Actually, umm it DOES matter. Who is going to build our tanks when were alone and at war? Again some people want to make this economy solely a service and finance one. Why? What possible reason is there? What possible advantage does this nation have to gain by having our manufacturing leave the country? Think about it. please. Thats what seperates/seperated America from everybody else. When never had to rely on outside help to keep things running smoothly like, say England or Cuba. You seem to put alot of blind faith into countries like China that somehow, there always gonna be friendly. There always going to want to build toys,electronics, and ****..everything on the crack of a whip. What happens if they said no and just nationalize the cheap Western 2 bit manufacturing operations?? I'll tell you what happens. We lose. Big time and were at there mercy.

"I'm not down with this, "America needs to have farmers/industrial workers." All that results in is a system of tariffs and other restrictions that keep less developed economies from being able to catch up with us. We need to relax and realize that American labor is simply too well educated to plow fields and manufacture I-beams. Our realms are commerce and research, and other fields that are suited to our strengths."

Yaaa right. And since you seem to be the expert on this. You can really see the irony in this. Remember England during the world wars buddy.

It is a matter of NATIONAL security to keep industry, here. In America. This new BS uber-capitalist thought where somehow you make the assumption americans are too good to build there own consumer needs is Crap.

[faded glory]

Just a personal story to sweetin the pot

My Uncle worked for Briggs and Straton in the 80's for about 8 years and was making 21.00$ an hour on the assembly line. The plant closed and in 89' and right now he makes maybe half that being a network maintence Operater for GE department in NE.

Find me a job after 8 years that gets you that kind of money and makes you that valuable? Without a load of college degree's plz. We all know the 21st century College will be totally out of reach for the average joe-blow.

[chequita guevara]

It was high union wages that turn this country around. High union wages mean more money is in circulation, which means more jobs are created. All sorts of secondary jobs are created by workers getting good wages: construction, because more workers can buy houses; autos; because more workers can buy cars; etc.

Unlike Reagan's voodoo economics, union wages actually do create a trickle down effect. When those jobs dry up and go to Mexico, so do the secondary effects of those jobs. When all the auto factories shut down in Flint, so did housing construction, grociers, malls, etc.

FG is actually being optimistic about the only jobs left being fast food. What, fast food workers are just gonna sell fast food to each other? No good paying union jobs, and there's no one to buy fast food. Not everyone can be in management.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Faded, free markets won't make everyone in the US fast food workers. Companies only move to 3rd World companies in unskilled labor jobs. Productive jobs don't move to the 3rd World. Those stay in the US. Companies that require high skilled labor and high productivity workers tend to stay in 1st world countries.

Also based on Comparative Advantage, US industry will be just fine. It'll be based on what we are the best in.

[DanS]

I'm amazed that some forget the good that has come about because of vastly increased trade.

Re this lockout, I view it as a failure on both sides to work something out. It is absurd that 10,000 workers and management are costing everybody else $1 billion a day in business because of their failures. It just ain't right.

Che: Maybe so. But this is the wrong horse to back. Once UAW plants start being shuttered because of lack of parts, the $40,000 UAW workers (of which my brother-in-law is one) are going to start wondering why they have to suffer for their $110,000 brethren.

[Felch]

Yeah, odds are they can't find people to do arms manufacturing of American quality in other countries. Besides things like that the Defense Department only buys from Americans. I think even the Harriers we bought were manufactured in the States under contract.

I'm talking about widgets here, not F-22s.

[Gatekeeper]

I live in ag country, and the stuff will start to pile up shortly now that the BNSF can't take the unit trains filled w/grain to the West Coast ports for shipping 'round the world. I hope this lockout ends before the grain starts rotting ...

Gatekeeper

[KrazyHorse]

You're lucky there's any grain to rot after the summer we've had...

[Frankychan]

Most of your are forgetting that the heads of the unions are corrupt anyways..........(just gotta vent some more)....

These stupid freekin longshoremen are all like "hey, I feel for the people of Hawaii's plight, but I want to make my $10.00 an hour raise work!" You know what? Screw you. (censored version). The COL (Cost Of Living) is so much cheaper over there that ppl over there can live lavishly while we suffer the butt end over here.

Freek the union leadership! They're probably all greedy fat ba*****s anyways. I normally support blue-collar workers but this is just friken ridiculous.

[Zkribbler]

Franky, this isn't a strike about wages...it's a lock out because the unions won't let management hire non-union labor.

Of course, the really sick joke here is that, if managment were allowed to hire non-union labor, the new employees would probably organize in the next few years anyway. But no union is going to cave in on this point, and it's a ridiculous powerplay for managment to even attempt.

(I realizing that you're just venting over union corruption...elsewise, as VP of my local, I would take personal offense at your claims.)

[The Mad Monk]

Watch it, folks! We have one of them in our midst!

[axi]

Oh come on MtG, how could I know, living half way around the world, how much these guys get paid?

This doesn't matteer anyway, since this seems not to be a strike but a lock-out. In that case what I don't understand is what the govt is trying to do: force the unionists to accept non union workers so that the lockout will stop, or force the shipping companies stop the lock-out without any change in the status?

[chequita guevara]

So far all the government has done is have Tom Ridge (Homeland Security--why him?) call the union before the lockout began. Frankly, the President is being extremely partisan on this, and staying hands off in the hopes that he can woo the Teamsters from the Democrats, rather than simply implimenting Taft-Hartley and really pissing off labor.

DanS, have you talked with your brother-in-law about the lockout? #1, they aren't going to hurt that badly since they'll get unemployment (they'll take a hit, but $1000+ a month for sitting on your arse ain't bad). #2, many union members realize it's the union that got them high wages and that if they don't all stand together they'll all hang seperately.

Sadly, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the union bureaucracies have failed to do ground work building support for the longshoremen before the lockout began.

In any event, this is management's fault. It's not about money or benefits, it's about the union and management wanting to do whatever it wants.