Elections and the Electoral College

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
It is hard for Madison to sign it into law when they were signed into law by Adams and rescinded by Jefferson in 1800. Madison was elected President in 1808.

Oops. I should looked that up too.

Um no. It wasn't a compromise. The founders were very very wary of democracy and wanted to temper that.

Nope that one I stick with. It was at least partly a compromise between the large and small states. Its the same exact compromize as was made for the creation of two houses of Congress. The founders were not all that wary of Democracy although that may have been involved in the 12 Amendment which was written after the French Revolution. After all the states were run democraticaly. Well there have been some exceptions over the years like the Daley machine in Chicago and Kingfish Long in Lousiana.

Yes I have. The states are supposed to have more people that the individuals within them. States have had their power chipped away. The Senate was originally elected by State Legislatures. The HOUSE was the place where the people could have their power in a democratic fashion.

"States are supposed to have more people than the individuals within"

Well they don't so thats crap and nothing else.

The States STILL have two Senators each giving ALL the states equal power in the Senate. That the Senate is now popularly elected is good. The States are part of a Nation and they are not sovereign states, most of them never were sovereign for even an instant.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


Anyway, it'll be IMPOSSIBLE to abolish the Electoral College, so why it is even being discussed is silly.

You have heard of Amendments haven't you? You know those things in the Constitution where it was changed.

It would be difficult but amending the Constitution has always been difficult. Nevertheless the Electoral College system HAS been changed by the 12th Amendment so there is even a precedent for change on it.

George Bush is in the perfect position to get rid of the dinosaur.

[TheStinger]

EDIT- I am referring to teh map posted by Redjohn


As there is no indication of the population covered by the parties this is pretty meaningless

[red_jon]

Originally posted by TheStinger
EDIT- I am referring to teh map posted by Redjohn


As there is no indication of the population covered by the parties this is pretty meaningless

Well I know where the population centres are

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by red_jon


Well I know where the population centres are

I do too, but non natives think everyone lives in London
or in a little village with thatched cottages and ponds with ducks.

[red_jon]

Originally posted by TheStinger


I do too, but non natives think everyone lives in London
or in a little village with thatched cottages and ponds with ducks.

Don't be silly, about 3 people live in Oxford - there's a university there ya know

[gorilonblanco]

Originally posted by Ethelred
The States are part of a Nation and they are not sovereign states, most of them never were sovereign for even an instant.

Once we defeated the British. The British crown recongized each former colony as a sovereign state. The United States as we think of it today, did not exist at the time. First there was the Articles of Confederation (which failed). Then the Founding Fathers wrote the Constitution as we know it today.

[Ethelred]

Once we defeated the British. The British crown recongized each former colony as a sovereign state.

Yeah all THIRTEEN of them. You can add in Texas for fouteen. Out of FIFTY. I did say most. I did it quite deliberatly. Even those fourteen gave up sovereignty when they became part of the nation.

[gorilonblanco]

I stand corrected (except that some of those states, when they ratified the Constitution, specifically stated that they reserve the right to secede from the union - some of them northern states). Mainly because that what they were trying was new to them.

As to the question of abolishing the Electorial College. You stated in one of your previous post that the:

Population of California in 2000 33,871,648

Population of Wyoming in 2000 493,782

Electoral vote per person

California 1.59425369559815926287377573125465e-6

Wyoming 6.07555560956049430720439384181683e-6

My question is this (I'm not trying to be a smart ass): How much of that population figure you quoted were citizens or naturalized citizens of the United States?

[Ethelred]

It doesn't matter. The census and representation is soley based on the number of people in the state at the time of the Census. Now that slaves don't count anyway. Its in the Constitution that way.

Now its highly likely that the percentage of non-citizens is higher in California than in Wyoming BUT its not going to make up for 3.8 to one. That would require there to be far more non-citizens than citizens in California. Its not that bad. Nowhere near it.

I wouldn't mind if that was changed as well.

[gorilonblanco]

I'm glad that your state is doing a good job on the census. In my state some of the illegals do get counted on the census and some of them do vote.

By the way what did you mean by: I wouldn't mind if that was changed as well.

[Ethelred]

I'm glad that your state is doing a good job on the census.

My state or your state its done by the Feds not the state.

In my state some of the illegals do get counted on the census and some of them do vote.

They are ALL supposed to be counted. EVERY SINGLE PERSON, legal, ilegal, or in jail. Every one is to be counted, even the homeless.

Only the citizens are supposed to vote. I doubt that many non-citizens are voting in any state. A few here and there I suppose. Less than the number of dead that vote in general but I am just guessing on the number of dead that vote these days. Its kind of frowned on. Ask Ming about dead voters. I think it was pretty popular in Chicago at one time and there are rumors about LBJ in Texas, not his elections but in some that he was involved in early on in his career.

By the way what did you mean by: I wouldn't mind if that was changed as well.

I wouldn't mind if voting only took citizens into account. At present its everone and its that way in every state. An ammendment to the Constitution would be needed to change it. It makes sense for the Census to count everyone. A lot of budgeting depends on that but it gives states with a lot of non-citizens disproportionate representation. That means the citizens in New York, California, probably Texas and Florida have more votes than some of the other large states in comparison to the number of actualy citizens.

[gorilonblanco]

True enough. Speaking of dead voters. What do you think about dead politicians being eleted and their post being handed off to their spouse or other family member.

[Ethelred]

That is kind of rare. It happens though. Usually when the other candidate is so unpopular that a dead man can beat them and the spouse has been active enough the Governor of the State in question thinks she or he will do the job well enough.

Someone has to take over. At least the spouse will know what the agenda was. Its a bad situation all around no matter who replaces the dead candidate.

[gorilonblanco]

To quote a quote: "Everybody has an agenda, everybody"