Could America Have Won the Vietnam War?

[Ned]

Originally posted by Tingkai


How many advisors said don't send in troops?

A lot. Bundy, Rostow and I believe Rusk. Even Kennedy was extremely wary. There were a lot of people advising caution after the disaster of the Bay of Pigs.

[Rogan Josh]

Re: Could America Have Won the Vietnam War?

Originally posted by cgannon64
Now, when I say 'win' I do not simply mean conquer North Vietnam or establish a friendly government there. By win, I mean doing those things while keeping America's ideals alive.

[GePap]

Coud America have won the Vietam War?

Yes

Did we?

No

Does it matter anymore?

Not much, just for American Ego.

Of course, we could have lost WW1 and WW2, so all considered, not too bad.

[cgannon64]

Rogan Josh, please explain the comedy you see in that sentence.

[Ned]

Originally posted by GePap
Coud America have won the Vietam War?

Yes

Did we?

No

Does it matter anymore?

Not much, just for American Ego.

Of course, we could have lost WW1 and WW2, so all considered, not too bad.

GePap, obviously you were not alive during that war, so you will never know. That war tore this nation apart. We were trying to do good, and ended up doing evil. We could have won with a different strategy, but our leadership failed us. The war was not a military defeat, but a defeat imposed on the American people by LBJ.

The idealism of many if not most Americans was destroyed. We began to hate ourselves for what we had become. The military fell into disrepute and the economy into chaos. Everyone across the world rightly said that America's star was in decline.

We should never forget Vietnam and lightly assume that we could have won with just a little more firepower. We could not have won that war the way were fighting it. LBJ, in particular, is a murderer - both of the Vietnamese we killed and of the American troops that were killed there.

Wars, if they are fought, should be fought with clear objectives, overwhelming force and the minimization of casualties. Vietnam had none of these.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ned
The war was not a military defeat, but a defeat imposed on the American people by LBJ.

The war was a defeat imposed upon the American government by the American people.

[Ned]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


The war was a defeat imposed upon the American government by the American people.

Cute. But to the extent I understand this, I do not agree. The American people supported LBJ until early 1968. That's when Bobby Kennedy broke ranks and began his campaign. LBJ was a parriah after that.

[uh Clem]

From the Nixon Library:

In the 1968 campaign, candidate Nixon asserted in virtually every speech that the goal of his administration would be to "end the war and win the peace in Vietnam." One of the enduring myths of the 1968 presidential campaign is that the Republican nominee claimed to have a "secret plan" to end the war. He never made such a claim.

http://www.nixonlibrary.org/Research...xon_Role.shtml

("VIETNAM AND THE 1968 CAMPAIGN")

It's one of those things that "everybody knows," but it isn't true.

[cgannon64]

Ned has a point. Voters lost ALOT of faith in the government, and voting really went down after Vietnam. How many people voted in the 2000 election? Around 8 million, right? How many in America are voting age? ALOT more. For example, if the same percentage of people who voted after WW2 voted in the early 80s, there would have been 20 million more votes.

Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

[Dom Pedro II]

But at the same time, if you compare the percentages of people who voted in elections, say 100 years ago, the figures have not changed that dramatically. I mean, if you pick an election like 1860 or 1864, the results would be dramatically different, but in years were there were no great crises, the voter turn out was about the same.

[Ned]

Originally posted by uh Clem
From the Nixon Library:



http://www.nixonlibrary.org/Research...xon_Role.shtml

("VIETNAM AND THE 1968 CAMPAIGN")

It's one of those things that "everybody knows," but it isn't true.

I don't remember Nixon's exact words, but everyone knew that Nixon claimed to have a secret plan to end the war. We all eagerly awaited to see what that plan was when he took office. The plan was "Vietnamization." We would gradually withdraw and turn the ground combat over to the Vietnamese.

This we did. Troop levels declined steadly under Nixon, from over 550,000 in early 1969 to just 25,000 at the end of the war in Jan. 1973.

[Rogan Josh]

Originally posted by cgannon64
Rogan Josh, please explain the comedy you see in that sentence.

Wasn't it meant to be funny?

Oh... you were serious!

[joseph1944]

Originally posted by Ned


I don't remember Nixon's exact words, but everyone knew that Nixon claimed to have a secret plan to end the war. We all eagerly awaited to see what that plan was when he took office. The plan was "Vietnamization." We would gradually withdraw and turn the ground combat over to the Vietnamese.

This we did. Troop levels declined steadly under Nixon, from over 550,000 in early 1969 to just 25,000 at the end of the war in Jan. 1973.

Nixon did say as you have said he would end the war.

[joseph1944]

Originally posted by Ned
joseph1944, Yes, but he had Diem assassinated in Nov. 1. That fixed that problem. Kennedy himself was assassinated just three weeks later.

Here is a quote from an interview conducted with NBC news on Sept. 9.

According to RSMcN book, (I read it two years ago) Kennedy did not want to kill Diem per say, however he did want him removed from the Presidency for real. So Kennedy said I'm going to Boston for the weekend and if Saigon calls you handle it. Well, Robert S did not want to kill him either so he told the duty officers at state and defense if Saigon embassy calls you call it and I back you. So when Saigon did call the duty office told them to go for it.
Hell of a way to kill ally president.
Also according to the book every time Saigon ask permission to kill Diem, Kennedy would say no Lets waite a few days and see what is happing. This went on a several weeks. I think Kennedy was hoping something would happen without our involvement

[Ned]

joseph1944, you have to wonder about Kennedy. He allegedly was a smart man but he made so many critical mistakes.