Historical Finger Pointing, Issue I: World War I

[Dry]

In fact I don't know enough to pick one. So, let's try to put the blame on the US.
... let's be creative here... (smoke, smoke...)

first try (easy): the jewish-masonic plot.
Always very popular, so I think it's possible to get something here.
Let me think ...
So, WW1, was in fact a jewish-masonic plot in order to kill as many good white christians as possible. The result of WW1 was that many europeans died and US only came at the end to collect the pieces.
... I think I get something here. Let's continue...
It is well know that the US is a masonic creation, so it is logic to think that the whole plot for Europe's destruction was remotely controled from Washington.
So yes, the blame is to be put on the jewish financers and the free masons in the US.

Ok, this one was easy... only a warm up... let's try it harder...

wait... thinking... colonialism... iirc my history lessons there was also something like UK, France, Russia, US had colonies or where big enough to assure raw material independency (autarcy), Germany not. One reason of WW1 was also that big empire autarcy philosophy...
So let's try a colonialist explanation...
So, UK is evil, because it had taken the best places (costals)...
Geez, how will I get to the US here... hard, hard... let's continue...
OK, US was the biggest UK colony, but was now independent... with Germany they were the last to enter the race, they were thus concurrent... Would US not be independent, it would still be in the British empire and thus self-sufficient. Germany would had it easier to get colonies and the "drang nach osten" would have been lower.
So the blame is to the US who declared independency
Gees, that one was hard. Still looks too weak, but I feel it can be reworked to get something really psychedelic... give me more time (and mushrooms) and I'll find a good one.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Orthodox in 1934 maybe. You gotta get new text books down there.

You really are a f*ckwit aren't you.

Read the thread and you'll find the citation. The Fischer thesis has been the orthodoxy since 1961. Germany caused world war I.

It is a tribute to Fischer's scholarship and 15 years of painstaking research that his thesis has not been seriously challenged in 40 years. Germany caused World War I.

There hasn't been an important academic book on the subject in 20 years.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse


You really are a f*ckwit aren't you.

Outta my thread. I said in the first post, no personal insults.

[Boris Godunov]

As for the silly notion there are no recent scholarly books on the subject of the causes, here:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0582286972/qid=1031923666/sr=2-3/ref=sr_2_3/002-1170383-5198431

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0198208774/qid=1031923666/sr=1-6/ref=sr_1_6/002-1170383-5198431?v=glance&s=books&n=53

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0881339547/qid=1031923817/sr=1-19/ref=sr_1_19/002-1170383-5198431?v=glance&s=books

And those are only a few. One book I couldn't remember the name of, that came out only this year I believe, is a scholarly work that put the blame squarly on the UK.

So I'd say it's still a hotly debated issue. I've never had any history professor who said Fischer's work was ther last word on the matter, and his work is full of flaws.

[Andrew1999]

Events outside of Europe had almost no effect on starting WWI except by occasionaly raising tempers. But those colonies were just considered pieces on a board, to be arranged by conferences and treaties and the occasional military bluff. It was only territories in Europe that were really consiedered important enough to go to war over.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Horsie is just trolling. He knows Fischer is full of flaws. It was accepted by a lot because a) someone blamed his own country for starting the war and b) some people were already leaning towards German culpability and this cemented their cause.

Germany had plans for expansion is really amusing. It seems to ignore that Russia, France, and even Austria had those same plans (though in different directions). Of course the war could not start without Germany, but it also could not start without Russia, Austria, or Serbia as well.

We dealt with Fischer in our University WW1 class, but he was just part of the matter. There was no talk that he was the last word on the matter, just that he was a famous writer of it. Funny that people don't like to point out his bias. Being a socialist, you'd naturally think he'd like to slander a monarchist government of Germany.

But if you are looking for most culpability, I'll still say Russia. Damn commies .

[notyoueither]

What, has this one gone away?

[TheStinger]

I think we might be ready for issue 2 now

[Adalbertus]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
We talking about who caused the war. Germany caused the war.

We are doing historical finger pointing. I've got still all my fingers, so I can lefthandedly point to five nations. Which I will do

Two more serious notes:
I have a serious distrust in scientific authorities, especially when used to block further discussion (which is what you did). Unfortunately this is a technique widely used in the humanities when uncomfortable new ideas come up. It is very detrimental to the respective subject.

Second, what I see as much more important in the historical account is the atmosphere so eager for war which arose in Europe in the beginning of the 20th century (and Wilhelm II. had well played his part in this, but he was by far not the only one). Sitting there and being happy that others do the job on promoting war is not a noble attitude. That's why I point to a lot of countries.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by TheStinger
I think we might be ready for issue 2 now

I have a few possibilities for the next issue, but am mulling over which one to do...

[Faeelin]

I blame the The Austrians for the war: They gave the serbs an incredibly unreasonable list of demands, and the sebs agreed to all but one. They invaded.

I blame the French for the european war: The russians mobilized for war. Germany warned them to stop, but Russia refused. France, rather than asking its ally to end the preparations for war, promptly did so as well. France constantly, and violently, sought to confront Germany since the franco-prussian war. For the ocnsequences, they have none to blame but themselves.

[Andrew1999]

Almost nobody thought a general war would be a real disaster. The French, the Germans, the Russians, everyone believed that "home before the leaves fall" crap. So the idea of a huge war was not that terrible to a lot of people. This led to a lot of irresponsibility among the leaders of Europe.

[JCG]

I believe the blame lies mostly on Serbia, the root of it all.

On the other hand, Russia and Germany did everything they could to create tension through their mobilizations and guarantees of support to Serbia and Austria respectively, so they both deserve a slap, too.

[Wernazuma III]

Wow, I never thought that so many think Austria is to blame for WWI. Austria had no interest in a large conflict, we just wanted to start a "war against terrorism". That's speaking anachronistically, but it's true in the largest part. Everyone knew Serbia was behind the assesination and we responded with war - that's not really unusual! Germany and Russia were those nations who made this conflict more than an Austrian-Serbian issue...

[Adalbertus]

Hm. I think Germany had at least no influence on what Russia did, after the alliance (which was forged by Bismarck) was broken. (Bismarck is one of the few politicians I respect by his abilities even if I don't agree with him).