What if: A suitcase nuke levels downtown New York

[joseph1944]

Originally posted by jimmytrick


That is an interesting point, although in Tom Clancy novels you can trace a nuclear detonation back to the facility where the fissible material was manufactured. And of course Jack Ryan and John Clark would have the bad guys IDs in about 84 pages.

You may not know this, but you can trace Nuclear Material. Take sample of the fall out and you will find out the grade of the material and we know who can produce difference type of grade. The country in question would be ID in a matter of days.

[OldWarrior_42]

You've just got to read all the arrogant d1ckwaving on this thread to realise just why someone would want to Nuke NY in the 1st place...

I doubt that too many of the al-qaeda network of terrorists read Apolyton and derive their hatred of NYC through the infantile d*ckwaving of a couple of juveniles.

There could be no reason to understand the nukeing of anyplace on Earth.

And then you wonder why the rest of the World hates the US!!?

Yes, I do. Hate the policies of the Government and try to bring about change through peaceful ways. Why would anyone use this place as a gauge of American sentiment, anyway? There are over 280 million people living here. Each, with what I am sure would be their own unique view of things. Don't hate the people. Hate the Establishment and the way things get bogged down with the usual government red tape and double speak.

And destroying Mecca is NOT an acceptable equivalent!!!

There could be no acceptable equivalent. No nukeing is acceptable... but probably quite likely if this scenario took place. Albeit not right away. But I am sure there would be a start with heavy military action leading to the involvement of many other nations... then the usual escalating of events which could possibly then lead to the use of nuclear weapons by someone involved.

Some of you guys are really f*cked in the head!!?

Thought that was obvious a long time ago. You need to not let this little website be your opinion gauge of the average American citizen.

My mother and father are both still in NYC. I have a brother , several Aunts and Uncles... and many first and second cousins all still living there. As well as family on my wifes' side. We are both born and bred New Yorkers. We also have very many friends there. To see it suffer the tragedy of this silly "what if" scenario would hit us so very hard. Therefore, I believe I could see the possibility of not thinking rationally or having rational feelings towards others. This is what I suspect may take place in the Government as well.

The need to react may be too strong , before rational thought is the norm. And thus I can see terribly Unacceptable things happen.

Shame that we have to live under these conditions. The world has changed in my years of growing up... but I don't think for the better.

I hope I am wrong.

[Felch]

Originally posted by MOBIUS
You've just got to read all the arrogant d1ckwaving on this thread to realise just why someone would want to Nuke NY in the 1st place...

And then you wonder why the rest of the World hates the US!!?

And destroying Mecca is NOT an acceptable equivalent!!!

Some of you guys are really f*cked in the head!!?

When contemplating a scenario where a major city with millions of people is wiped out, being ****ed in the head is really a prerequisite to making any statement. I noticed that you had no meaningful input and were merely spamming to show your contempt for others.

Originally posted by MOBIUS
Obviously your ignorance spreads to movies, the avatar that you're dissing in such a rude manner is a homage to one of the seminal movies of Lord of the Rings director, Peter Jackson...

That alone is enough reason to treat anything that you say with utter contempt...

Fine, put me on your ignore list, ignorance is bliss after all and from where I'm sitting you've got that in spades...

Oh my God!!! Zylka has a life and doesn't watch lame ass movies all the time. Sometimes, perish the thought, he might even get laid. Of course, if the ladies knew that he was unfamiliar with one of the seminal works of Peter Jackson, well, he would be rightfully treated with utter contempt by them, and any *******s from a third rate piss ass former world power that now spends all its time licking rebel chode.

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by Gatekeeper
It's easy to make fun of the thread participants so far.

You got that straight - some terrorists nuke our city so we flatten the country of whomever we think is responsible...

Or we decide to destroy the most holy site of an entire religion!!!

Arrogant morons!

Do something harder, like actually providing a level-headed answer to the what-if at hand: What would you do, MOBIUS, if the center of New York City went up in a nuclear fireball due to a suitcase nuke detonation?

Well, realise that perhaps 'we' should change our foreign policy in light of this new nuclear capability...

My answer? Nothing. That's what I'd do right away: Nothing. I'd be in too much shock to respond properly. Eventually there would be a response, and it would likely involve the employment of massive military forces, invasions and occupation of nations and their capitals. But I doubt I'd use nukes on other cities ... if they were to be used at all, it'd be battlefield weapons, or maybe neutron bombs.

Your answer is a symptom of the problem, just look at Israel to see where that gets you... Whaddya gonna do? Occupy every country that gives you grief - even the US is incapable of doing that without destroying it's economy!!?

What you're talking about is the whole reason why the rest of the World hates the US - the US acts like a global bully, and then wonders why the fruits of it's foreign policy are starting to come home to roost...

The question itself, I hope, never leaves the "what-if" realm.

Just start by changing your foreign policies, people only hate the US because there is a reason - take that reason away and people might stop hating you...

It will take a while and you'll have to remain vigilant, but it would be worth it IMO instead of living under the constant cloud of terror...

[Felch]

I don't live under a constant cloud of terror. Because I know that if anything were to happen, the attackers would suffer tremendously. And if we couldn't find them, we'd just murder a bunch of innocent people.

[Dis]

well then there would be no downtown New York now would there?

this is an easy what if

action? well the sad fact is we may never find out who was responsible. Although I thought that about 9/11 too. But the person responsible was more obvious back then.

what action would I justify? bombing them all to hell using conventional weapons. We should not stoop down to their level.

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by Felch X
I don't live under a constant cloud of terror. Because I know that if anything were to happen, the attackers would suffer tremendously. And if we couldn't find them, we'd just murder a bunch of innocent people.

LOL keep digging, fool!

A bunch of fanatics could easily arm themselves in the US (plenty of guns to choose from), hijack a petrol tanker and drive it through some govt building in small town USA detonating it into a huge lethal inferno and blow away the survivors - maybe kill a few hundred or so? I wouldn't strike NY, I'd find some out of the way place and take that out instead - send the message that nowhere in the US is safe...

If I were a terrorist that is...

Interesting that the bravado of invulnerability has returned - a year ago nobody would have thought 9/11 was possible and yet it happened...

[Felch]

I have no idea whatsoever how that has anything to do with what I posted.

Besides, a few hundred or so in a country of 280 million still isn't something to panic about. We lose that many every day due to inadequate health care and wipe spread firearms ownership.

Your dealing with a country of badasses. We aren't terribly bothered by violence. We just like watching our enemies run and hide while we rape their wives and daughters.

[Felch]

Besides, in small town America the survivors would be well armed, and eager to kill radical Muslim terrorists. These are people who think .50 caliber rifles are good for hunting deer . . . and dark skinned fellers.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally posted by MOBIUS
You got that straight - some terrorists nuke our city so we flatten the country of whomever we think is responsible...

Or we decide to destroy the most holy site of an entire religion!!!

Arrogant morons!

**shrug** Maybe you should take Old Warrior's advice and realize that Apolyton does not necessarily offer a representative view of all 280 million Americans.

Sure, some of us are idiots. Others are not. The same holds true of every nation on this Earth, I might add. Although it's nice to think that maybe some have more idiots than others, depending on one's mood at any given moment.

Well, realise that perhaps 'we' should change our foreign policy in light of this new nuclear capability...

That's a non-answer, MOBIUS. You are the POTUS, the center of New York is no more and you have millions of Americans screaming for blood. Think realpolitik here.

BTW, my answer to this scenario remains mostly the same, although I would amend it to make sure any nations we brought ruin to would, in turn, be rebuilt economically (Marshall Plan II, perhaps) and representative governments allowed to find fertile ground in which to flourish. The model would be like Europe after WW II — the western half of the continent flourished in due time, but the eastern half, behind the Iron Curtain, did not. The model I envision would be how Western Europe did, not Eastern Europe.

Your answer is a symptom of the problem, just look at Israel to see where that gets you... Whaddya gonna do? Occupy every country that gives you grief - even the US is incapable of doing that without destroying it's economy!!?

Well, it's better than what you would seemingly (not) do, even moreso after I made my "amendments" to the original idea.

Do not assume we couldn't do it ... during WW II, we mostly fought Japan by ourselves, island by bloody island. It undoubtably would have been easier for us had we had a similar set-up to the European Theatre, what with British, Russian and some French help, but, nonetheless, we did what we could in the Pacific Theatre.

What you're talking about is the whole reason why the rest of the World hates the US - the US acts like a global bully, and then wonders why the fruits of it's foreign policy are starting to come home to roost...

A good deal of the time, the rest of the world uses the United States of America as a scapegoat. It comes with the territory of being the sole remaining superpower, I imagine, but it doesn't change the reality that a good many problems perceived as being caused by America do, indeed, oftentimes have more "local" origins and, thus, local solutions.

But not all the time. I've been doing some reading on what we did in Chile in 1973 and am most displeased so far. Their president at the time may have been communist, but he was duly elected by the people and wasn't warping the constitution there, so far as I can tell. Cold War politics or not, this is an example where I believe we did the same thing to another country that the former Soviet Union did to Czechslovakia and Poland at various points in time (among other nations). Pinochet supplied the weapons, though.

Just start by changing your foreign policies, people only hate the US because there is a reason - take that reason away and people might stop hating you...

It will take a while and you'll have to remain vigilant, but it would be worth it IMO instead of living under the constant cloud of terror...

Perhaps. The older I get, the more I believe that there are people out there who hate simply because they can. No one is born evil, IMHO, but decisions made in life can lead one down a path that results in such things as Sept. 11, 2001. We could change everything we do today and, 10 years later, somebody would find a way to hate us anyway. They would attack us, and we might find ourselves here, back in Apolyton, going back-and-forth regarding U.S. policies.

Some people become evil, IMHO. Logic means nothing to them, nor does rationality. They hate because they can, and *nothing* else matters.

Gatekeeper

[Promethus]

I know it's a bit out of fashion these days, but the older "Civilizations" just killed the entire foe (man, woman & child)
and never had to deal with them again.

[orange]

why on earth would you burn Mecca?

Jesus H people...

If someone suitcase nuked NYC I know full well Bush would simply nuke who ever was responsible...

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Promethus
I know it's a bit out of fashion these days, but the older "Civilizations" just killed the entire foe (man, woman & child)
and never had to deal with them again.

Ah for the good ol' days of Pax Romana.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Actually, I was the forum hiccup that killed this thread first time around, but unfortunately, I did it right before I left for work, so I couldn't let Ming and rah know.

If any of the name-calling or juvenile bull**** continues, I'll ban any poster contributing to the problem for a week.

In fact, although I'll be working tomorrow, I will be checking in, and in no mood to **** around if anyone gets out of line.

No warnings, no BS - step out of line, and I'll give people plenty of time to get their minds right.

[Hydey]

for those people behind the deed



for those people who lost loved ones



for the rest of us in the world