Do you think this cartoon is correct?

[Maniac]

As I said they fight not directly between them, but in third countries.

[KrazyHorse]

Some people don't agree with the way you do things. So to tell them that they should be grateful to you smacks of both ignorance of others' objections and more than a bit of arogance in assuming that your way is the only way.

[Drake Tungsten]

Sino-Soviet border war, 1969.

Hardly qualifies as a real "war", but I'll still give you credit for thinking of one. I think my point about nuclear powers almost pathologically avoiding war with one another still stands.

[Drake Tungsten]

So to tell them that they should be grateful to you smacks of both ignorance of others' objections and more than a bit of arogance in assuming that your way is the only way.

I certainly don't think that the American way is the only way, but I do believe that it is the most effective way. I guess we could allow Saddam to develop nukes and see what happens, but that strikes me as an extremely idiotic thing to do. Every country should feel free to make its views known, but America is under no obligation to pay lip service to the most ridiculous of those views.

[Bereta_Eder]

Apparently it does otherwise you'd have gone in already.

[Drake Tungsten]

We're not obligated to do so, but we have done so in order to maintain relations with our European allies. Not exactly the behavior of a war mongering nation bent on world conquest is it?

[Bereta_Eder]

You can't do anything else.

[alva]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

Name one war that has occured between nuclear equipped powers.

Pakistan - India

not a full blown war, still it comes very close IMO

[Sandman]

The cartoon is incorrect as the 'ally' is holding a hands off Saddam sign. It should be hands off Iraq.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally posted by paiktis22
Europe already has lucrative oil deals with Iraq. US is screwing it up.

Yeah! Those damn sanctions! F*ckin' Yanks! All they do is screw up the way things should be done!

Hey, Paiktis. Do you have a breakdown on how much of that oil money Europe provides Iraq (due to their "lucrative" deals) goes to, say, helping the Iraqi people? Y'know. Food. Medicines. Rebuilding infrastructure. That sort of thing. What are the odds most of it goes towards Saddam's palaces, paying off his family and friends in high places, and, BTW, rebuilding facilities that, uh, don't have peaceful purposes?

Gatekeeper

[Maniac]

That's in all dictatorships. The same with your good allies Arabia.

[Drake Tungsten]

Pakistan - India

not a full blown war, still it comes very close IMO

I think that it would've become a full blown war if they had not been nuclear powers. They had fought wars before they became nuclear powers and no one was too concerned about it. Now that they are nuclear powers, however, the entire international community went crazy trying to prevent a war. No one wants to see a war between nuclear powers; the risks aren't worth it.

[Sandman]

I disagree with that view. I don't think that they were ever that close to war; it was all just sabre-rattling.

Didn't stop Bush sending Rumsfeld to the region with the easy task of convincing them not to annihilate each other. Result, Rumsfeld's stock goes up.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally posted by Maniac
That's in all dictatorships. The same with your good allies Arabia.

Europe doesn't seem to have a big problem with Saudi Arabia, either. Must be all that oil. Or maybe they're afraid their Islamic communities will rise up or something if Europe so much as opens its mouth in regards to SA.

Isn't it strange how the Western world continues to trade and do business with other nations that, frankly, are not beacons of freedom? I suppose if we in the Western world were to get really huffy about taking our ideals seriously, we'd have to cut off relations with most of the world or invade them and install democracies. I doubt that'll happen anytime soon. China's 1.1 billion person *potential* market is too much of a temptation, along with the Middle East's oil.

Realpolitik ensues.

Gatekeeper

[Maniac]

Indeed it does. So we should tolerate dictatorships to some degree, as Europe both does to Iraq and Arabia. The USA however are hypocrites. They support Arabia, but they accuse Iraq of not being democratic enough. I (and European leaders to some degree) see Iraq as just as good a potential business partner as Arabia. USA doesn't.