Chinese take on US media

[mindseye]

DinoDoc wrote:

Does this mean that there has been any improvement in the government's attitude toward house churches?

No way, Rome is still unwelcome here. And judging the Vatican by it's track record, I say hooray for that!

[mindseye]

Here's something I wrote in a recent post about Falun Gong (aka FalunDafa)...

From what I've seen, most of the protrayals of FG in the US press characterize it as nothing more than a form of tai-qi-like exercises. There are few references to the more bizarre teachings of Li Hongzhi, the cult's messianic leader. For your benefit, here's a few interesting nuggets translated from various speeches, publications, and tapes of Li Hongzhi.

Aliens are controlling mankind through computers, making them slaves to machines
Why have aliens invented such a scientific thing for people? Because it belongs to their planet, and they want to bring it to our world to finally mankind. As they discovered, the human body is so perfect that they want to use it to replace people. People would in turn become the slaves of computers and machines, and finally replaced by aliens. How do computers develop so rapidly? Why does the human brain become so active? because human minds are controlled by aliens, who have assigned a number to every person who is able to run a computer. I have deleted the numbers for my followers so that they would not be disturbed when using computers.

Taking medicines merely presses back karma and finally destroys you
Diseases do not arise from this space. Taking medicines can kill the surface virus, and it really works. But the power achieved by practicing Falun Gong can automatically eliminate viruses and karma. When medicines kill the surface virus, other viruses and karma in other spaces know it and do not come to you, so you feel better. But I assure you, they are still there. Human beings accumulate karma from beginning to end. When a person accumulates too much karma his illness will be incurable and he will be thoroughly destroyed when he dies.


When you reach a very high level after spiritual cultivation, you may gain compound eyes like those of flies
..Beyond the worldly spiritual cultivation, compound eyes appear. That is to say, a big eye appears on the upper half of the face, with countless small eyes in it. Practitioners at master level may have many eyes, filling the whole of their faces. All these eyes may see anything they want to see through this big eye. One glance may see thorough all levels. Modern zoologists and entomologists have studied flies. Their eyes are very large, and through a microscope one can see that they contain many small eyes. This phenomenon is called a called a compound eye. Only when a person reaches a very high level can he attain compound eyes.

Modern science is wrong
Modern science has actually developed on a basis which is wrong, and which has incorrect understandings of the universe, mankind and life. Therefore, the practitioners of Falun Gong do not accept modern science at all, and regard it as erroneous.

The Nanjing Massacre and Hitler's killing were caused by changes of astronomical phenomena

I defeated the "snake spirit"

Mankind had been completely destroyed 81 times

The Earth has exploded many times

Falun Dafa is a magnificent palace, while Christianity is just a small and simple room

I will stage a marvelous spectacle by bringing all my disciples to fly into the sky

Science has led to the moral degradation of human society

Demons will take the lives of those who betray "Falun Dafa"

Sorry, I gotta go now, expecting guests ...

[chequita guevara]

Actually, Tienemen Square happened 13 years ago. Still, that is alsmot a lifetime ago compared to the rapid changes in China.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by mindseye
No way, Rome is still unwelcome here. And judging the Vatican by it's track record, I say hooray for that!

Then how can you claim that there is freedom of religion in China as you appear to have been.

[ranskaldan]

Okay, let me address a question to the Westerners who are so convinced that China is a burning hell where people suffer in pain and torture:

What exactly are they suffering from? Don't say "authoritarianism", since that's just a concept. Tell me, in what way is the average Chinese citizen suffering in a day-to-day hell, compared to the average American citizen?

And of course, do you know any people who has lived for long periods in China who agrees with you?

[Imran Siddiqui]

To the person that said Mao is spinning in his grave... he's been probabaly spinning so much since Deng came to power, he's bored his way to the center of the Earth .

[Jaakko]

Originally posted by mindseye

Aliens are controlling mankind through computers, making them slaves to machines
Why have aliens invented such a scientific thing for people? Because it belongs to their planet, and they want to bring it to our world to finally mankind. As they discovered, the human body is so perfect that they want to use it to replace people. People would in turn become the slaves of computers and machines, and finally replaced by aliens. How do computers develop so rapidly? Why does the human brain become so active? because human minds are controlled by aliens, who have assigned a number to every person who is able to run a computer. I have deleted the numbers for my followers so that they would not be disturbed when using computers.

...

When you reach a very high level after spiritual cultivation, you may gain compound eyes like those of flies
..Beyond the worldly spiritual cultivation, compound eyes appear. That is to say, a big eye appears on the upper half of the face, with countless small eyes in it. Practitioners at master level may have many eyes, filling the whole of their faces. All these eyes may see anything they want to see through this big eye. One glance may see thorough all levels. Modern zoologists and entomologists have studied flies. Their eyes are very large, and through a microscope one can see that they contain many small eyes. This phenomenon is called a called a compound eye. Only when a person reaches a very high level can he attain compound eyes.

AHHHHH, run for the hills, it's Shan, the foul Insects from ****gai!!

If you don't do what they say they'll torment you with sights from their blasphemous rites to the Supreme God Azatoth. No please don't hurtmeilldowhatyousaynopleasenopleaseno


Edit: That's S H A G G A I. Isn't this level of censorship a little excessive?

[ranskaldan]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
To the person that said Mao is spinning in his grave... he's been probabaly spinning so much since Deng came to power, he's bored his way to the center of the Earth .

Hey, he actually has a nice little poster on Tiananmen, considering that all he really did was to play around with the country the same way I do with The Sims.

[Vesayen]

"Lack of freedom of religion is as well [/q] Huh? China has Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Moslems, and Christians!"


There are no Jews in China, at least in any significant number lol, if there were over 1,000 in china's population of over a billion, I would be amazed.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by ranskaldan
Tell me, in what way is the average Chinese citizen suffering in a day-to-day hell, compared to the average American citizen?

Define average first and I'll give it a shot. I'm sure that you'd tell me that the systemic examples political and religious repression I could point out aren't applicable to the "average" person.

[ranskaldan]

Average meaning most.

Tell me about the hell that most Chinese live in as a result of political and religious repression.

If you do, maybe I'll tell you about how Americans are in constant danger (and paranoia) of being knifed at work, shot on the street, blown up by terrorists, or clubbed to death by their own children.

[ranskaldan]

Originally posted by Vesayen
"Lack of freedom of religion is as well [/q] Huh? China has Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Moslems, and Christians!"


There are no Jews in China, at least in any significant number lol, if there were over 1,000 in china's population of over a billion, I would be amazed.

There are less than 2000 Jews in East and Southeast Asia.

So no, I wouldn't be betting on any significant local Jewish communities in China.

[mindseye]

Actually, Tienemen Square happened 13 years ago. Still, that is alsmot a lifetime ago compared to the rapid changes in China.

Obviously I still haven't mastered the use of the abacus.

Then how can you claim that there is freedom of religion in China as you appear to have been.

Most religious people worship as they wish. The small number of Christians can worship Christianity, although they are not allowed to acknowledge the Pope as their spiritual leader. You can easily buy a Bible or go to mass. More importantly, religious freedoms are steadily increasing. Haven’t we tread these grounds before (i.e. data point versus vector)?

I wouldn't be betting on any significant local Jewish communities in China.

I was basing my inclusion of Jews on the presence of synagogues in Shanghai. But now I can’t find any listings in my apartment to document that, so I may be wrong there. Bu hao yisi ("I'm embarassed") as the Chinese so often say.

[mindseye]

What exactly are they suffering from?

I'd say they are suffering from Communism. A monolithic, single-party form of gov't is destined to have major problems. The Party's Number One priority, like any human institution, is survival. Survival of the Party, that is. The welfare of the country is also high on the list, but it is subservient to Party survival. From this single fact stems most of China's worst problems today, which would include:

* lack of accountability - the people have no tools to get rid of leaders who make bad decisions
* dreadful legal system - most judges are simply Party hacks, only a minority even have college educations. The situation is improving, but the courts are still all too often a tool of the influential or wealthy.
* corruption - China's millennia-old problem is made worse by a single-party system. From top to bottom, China's entire political system is plagued by corruption. Judges and officials can be easily bought off. Political leaders' cronies and offspring (known as "princelings") are favored with lucrative gov't contracts and posts. Greedy officials vacuuming up unemployed worker's pensions is an ugly example.
* political oppression - UR's uncle's party is news to me, anyone who publicly talks about starting a rival political party usually finds himself in a labor camp.
* cultural oppression - the Uighurs in the northwest are not particularly pleased with being part of China. There are also problems in Tibet, although the situation is much more complex than the cartoon version most westerners seem to believe. On the other hand, there seems to be growing interest in preserving and promoting the cultures of China's many other minorities.
* the press is part of the gov't - thank heavens for the Internet!
* lack of control - for better or worse, the central gov't is unable to exert control over the entire political system. Not only do multiple centers of political power exist (e.g. wealthy cities/provinces, the military, large corporations), but also players on the periphery (e.g. local Party officials in remote areas) can become abusive, petty tyrants.

Most of these problems are inter-related, and I think most of them would be largely remedied by a multi-party system. I think that is most likely to occur through a split in the existing Party, as opposed to development of a new party.

Having said all that, I must point out that most of these problems affect relatively small groups of people, or only affect the general population in small ways. Some examples: everyone knows how to deal with corrupt officials (you pay a higher price, cultivate their boss, or go to a competing bureau). Anyone interested in alternative news sources simply uses the web. And few Chinese are interested in western religion or forming alternative political parties, so many of these problems are simply not so great as they appear through a western lens.

There are, however, geographic areas where concentrated problems are quite serious, such as some of the "rust belt" cities in the northeast where the new economic forces are throwing thousands out of work with no social safety net to support them.

I think most of China's citizens would not consider themselves oppressed, and would compare their society and political system pretty favorably with those of the US. When you compare quality of life in a big Chinese city with that of a big American city, I would certainly have to agree. Americans, applying their own cultural norms to Chinese society, tend to place an overly high value on things like freedom of religion while completely overlooking others more important to Chinese, such as freedom from crime. The latter was very revealing to me -- until you live in a place like this, you can have no idea of the many small prices Americans pay each day to live in such a dangerous society. I am reminded of this every time I walk fearlessly down a cramped, dark alley in the middle of the night.

Another important factor not often understood by Americans is that many Chinese will accept more gov't control in exchange for increased national stability. Consider that periods of instability in China's past have often meant enormous hardship and casualties. Many fear that overt political competition at the national level will lead to dangerous instability, and perhaps even dismemberment of the country. They look at the rapid improvement of living standards going on around them, and feel that now is not the time to experiment with large-scale political change.

[DanS]

"I think most of China's citizens would not consider themselves oppressed, and would compare their society and political system pretty favorably with those of the US."

Heaven help us.

Edit: the other parts of your post were informative. However, I would note that current stability is no indication of future stability. Indeed, the government is doing completely opposite of what is in the long-term interests of the country with regard to stability. This stability hinges on the soon to be tsunami of urbanization.