Distortions of truth and history: Lee, a better friend of slaves than Lincoln

[Imran Siddiqui]

One should not present either side as simple, one-dimensional, archetype dispicable villains, or virtuous heroes.

But you constantly present one side or the other, in whatever debate you are involved in, in one-dimensional terms. Lincoln and the Civil War are no different.

And yes, slavery was the most important issue, but you can't understand the Civil War if you don't realize that the economic issue of tariffs and political ideals of states' rights (which contrary to those who have not adequately studied American history doesn't simply relate to slavery... in fact the first time states' rights was brought up was in the case of Freedom of Speech against the 'Alien and Sedition Acts').

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Ramo


He took 30,000 political prisoners. Given the population at the time, you don't consider that a great impact?

Do you have a link?

The author explains that 19th century record-keeping was horrible compared to later standards, so there are no complete accurate statistics.

Yes, the author does agree that 15,000++ people were arrested due to Lincoln's controversial policies.

Yes, a number of those people probably should not have been arrested, but that is due more to local and state level corruption by over zealous officers.

Lincoln personally reviewed a number of cases when he had the time, which was already strained by his other duties as war-time president.

Not to mention also, that the Democratic party was allowed to continue campaigning during the Civil War, and that many newspaper offices spoke against Lincoln's policies without being shut down.


A link? There's this old-fashioned institution called a library; one that might be in your local area.

If I find a link, I will place it here though.

[Capt Dizle]

rambo, who do you think is not evil?

[Sava]

What's scary is that these sick ultra-right wing conservatives believe this BS...

[Imran Siddiqui]

Maybe because this 'BS' may have been true? No one is saying it is definite, but that it might have been possible. Is that so hard to believe?

[Boris Godunov]

Isn't it terrific how Republicans say to the general public, "We're the party of Lincoln," and then behind closed doors they foam about how he was such an evil bastard?

Ergo Republicans must be evil bastards.

[Sava]

Maybe from a certain point of view, I guess ... I'm sure Lee liked blacks more. But I doubt it was anything more than the respect a man has for his dog.

I guess you sickos are forgetting that they were SLAVESSS.... SUB HUMAN.... TREATED LIKE ANIMALSS.... SOLD LIKE COMMODITIES....

Next time you idiots are going to support a stupid troll idea, at least say it outloud to hear how UTTERLY STUPID it sounds.

May god have mercy on your soulss.... (you know you did something really wrong when an atheist tells you this!)

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by Ramo


Huh?

FYI, I think he was evil..

Well at least I allready had a suspicion as to what kind of mind you have.

Why is this "unfair"?

Because its not related to your claim. The South started the War and that makes THEM responsible for the deaths in any case.

Then tell me what you consider to be slavery.

You can't buy or sell conscripted soldiers.

I don't think you have a grasp on my political preferences yet.

Bets? Do really think I picked those out by accident?

I suppose I could be mixing you up with someone else that is a Libertarian and maybe you are an anarchist. In which case there is no capacity for reason in you. Anarchy can only lead to some hardcase taking over. Its not a viable system. Even more brain dead than extreme Libertarianism.

I am still waiting for those numbers by the way. The War deaths are usually given as around 600,000 and as I pointed out that number is the responsibility of the people that started the war not the people that ended it.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I guess you sickos are forgetting that they were SLAVESSS.... SUB HUMAN.... TREATED LIKE ANIMALSS.... SOLD LIKE COMMODITIES....

Which is basically how Lincoln thought of them.... do you have a point or are you just being a stupid troll?

Isn't it terrific how Republicans say to the general public, "We're the party of Lincoln," and then behind closed doors they foam about how he was such an evil bastard?

Or rather can it mean that some Republicans are more objective and can say that people in their own party have done wrong, unlike the Democrats who believe that God has made their **** not stink.

[Sava]

The Republicans of that era would be the Democrats of today. Comparing the neo-fascist right wing organization known as the GOP to the Republicans of the mid to late 19th century is false. They share little more than a name.

[Ramo]

Yes, a number of those people probably should not have been arrested, but that is due more to local and state level corruption by over zealous officers.

That's because Lincoln suspended habeas corpus. When he removed legal protections citizens had, he gave local authority the power to do whatever they wanted.

A link? There's this old-fashioned institution called a library; one that might be in your local area.

It's almost 11 PM here, you know.

[Capt Dizle]

If you think that the Republicans are neo-fascists you would pee your pants at first glance of a real fascists, you whinny.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Maybe because this 'BS' may have been true? No one is saying it is definite, but that it might have been possible. Is that so hard to believe?

Yes. I have looked into it. The Civil War was about Slavery to a degree that amazed me when I looked at sources from that time and not modern revisionist history.

Yes States Rights did first come up over the Alien and Sedition Acts. It may also be the last time that State Rights were brought up in defense of human rights instead to squash human rights as has so often been the case.

Well it was involved in the helmet laws at one time but I don't think Senator Alan Cranston was expounding about State Rights when he fought successfully against the Carter Administration regarding helmet laws. He just did some good politicking got things changed. For a while anyway. He simply got the Federal laws amended.

[Sava]

I'm not going to debate what Lincoln might have thought or said about them. Actions speak louder than words *cough* Emancipation Proclamation *cough*

Regardless how freeing the slaves was in Lincolns favor strategically, he still did it.

You should show some respect for the man who kept the United States from being split into a collection of splinter faction states, and the man that paved the way for civil rights equality. But I guess I can't expect much more from someone that thinks terrorism is justified... I don't understand you Imran. If you were in the South circo pre-1860, the color of your skin would no doubt make you a slave. Wake up and smell what you're shoveling.

[Sava]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
If you think that the Republicans are neo-fascists you would pee your pants at first glance of a real fascists, you whinny.

not quite, Adolf... I would shoot them on sight just like my Serbian ancestors and family did.