Alberta fumes over Chretien's promise to ratify Kyoto

[Asher]

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2002/09/02/pm_kyoto020902

JOHANNESBURG - The Alberta government is steaming over a promise by the prime minister to ratify an agreement aimed at fighting global warming.

Prime Minister Jean Chrétien told the UN World Summit on Sustainable Development that he will ask Parliament to ratify the Kyoto Protocol on climate change before the end of the year.

That commitment was part of a speech Chrétien gave Monday morning in South Africa.

Parliament is almost certain to approve ratification because all opposition parties except the Canadian Alliance are in favour of the accord.

But Alberta Environment Minister Lorne Taylor warned that Alberta is ready to fight the federal decision, even if it means going to the Supreme Court of Canada.

Taylor said Canada has the right to sign international treaties, but natural resources fall under provincial jurisdiction.

"We feel strongly it's a breach of trust because there's been no consultation on a plan," Taylor said.

Industry leaders in the oil- and gas-rich province say the agreement will severely harm their energy-based economy.

But several polls this year show most Albertans are in favour of the Kyoto accord. One poll, commissioned by the provincial government itself and released in June, suggests 72 per cent of people in Alberta want ratification.

And last week, a poll conducted for Greenpeace concluded that almost 60 per cent of Albertans surveyed wanted Chrétien to announce his intention to ratify the accord.

The prime minister has been under intense pressure from environmental groups since he said in an earlier speech he would "probably" sign the environmental agreement.

John Bennett of the Sierra Club said Canada would have missed a "historic opportunity" if the prime minister had failed to make his intentions known while in Johannesburg.

The United States has refused to sign the international agreement, which sets targets for cutting greenhouse gas emissions in an attempt to slow global warming.

It's kinda funny how he doesn't see a problem with him promising the UN that Canada will ratify it and at the same time turning back to the Canadian provinces demanding a thorough investigation on the effects of Kyoto on the Canadian economy and telling them that he values their input and hasn't made his decision yet.

Thankfully the Alberta government (at the very least) will challenge this in national courts because resources are not under Ottawa's jurisdiction, but the province's, so they don't have any right to regulate what we do with them.

I think it also says a lot about just how much power Chretien has when all he has to do is "ask" parliament to do something and they will do it, since the party he's the leader of controls parliament. Too much power, I say, too much power! I'd like to see a parliament full of independent minds who won't blindly vote for whatever their Fuhrer says, but hey, that's me...

[leftover_crack]

Free Alberta from canadian tyranny!!!

Ill grab my rifle and go help. Anything to destabilize Canada

What kind of fumes? The kind that cause global warming?

[Asher]

More:

http://calgary.cbc.ca/template/servlet/View?filename=kc_09022002

Chrétien's Kyoto promise angers Albertans

EDMONTON - The Alberta government and the petroleum industry are rallying against the federal government after the prime minister announced plans to ratify the Kyoto accord within the year.

"The prime minister always said he would have consultation and agreement with the provinces before he ratified Kyoto. He hasn't even had consultations with the provinces," says Alberta Environment Minister Lorne Taylor.

Jean Chrétien made the announcement in Johannesburg on Monday during the the UN World Summit on Sustainable Development.

Taylor says Chrétien's plan to ratify the plan to reduce greenhouse gas emissions actions is a breach of trust.

"He has no agreement from the provinces. In fact, the first ministers have asked for a conference on this issue. He moved forward so I consider it to be a breach of trust."

Taylor vows that the province won't implement a deal that will hurt Alberta's economy.

Pierre Alvarez, head of the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers, says signing Kyoto will make it difficult for Alberta oil companies. He says they won't be able to compete with producers from countries such as the U.S. where the government has not agreed to ratify the deal.

"The United States, our largest trading partner, is out. And several of our competitors such as Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Mexico and Venezuela are not covered by this agreement."

[chequita guevara]

But if 72% of Albertans favor the treaty, isn't the Albertan government opposing its own citizens?

[Asher]

The same poll said 65% didn't know what Kyoto entails.
Leave it to the wonderful Chretien-funded CBC to leave that little detail out.

[DinoDoc]

1) Can the treaty be passed over Alberta's objections?

2) What legal resources does Alberta have at its disposal given that Klien is basically saying in your words "over my dead body"?

[Asher]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
1) Can the treaty be passed over Alberta's objections?

Yes, it can.
I don't see how Ottawa can force Alberta to abide by it, and Alberta has vowed never to implement it.

2) What legal resources does Alberta have at its disposal given that Klien is basically saying in your words "over my dead body"?

First they're going to try fighting it legally in courts, arguing that the federal government signed away rights to regulate how Alberta deals with its natural resources in the 1930s and Kyoto infringes upon that right, and will allow us to opt out.

Then I think they're just going to steadfastly refuse to implement it.

[chequita guevara]

Does that mean Canadian provinces can refuse to abide by NAFTA?

I know our states can, but the Fed's end up paying anyway.

[Asher]

The problem with Canada right now is we have a lame duck prime minister. He announced he's going away in 2004 (might get booted out in 2003 if his party doesn't vote him in again, and there is a large movement for that), so he's rushing headfirst into Kyoto because he wants it to be his "legacy".

He honestly doesn't care about the economic impact of it, since he has so far refused to commission any studies on it. He's promised to meet with the provinces and discuss it with him, and he hasn't done that either. He just doesn't care anymore, he's going forward without thinking.

Something similar happened in the 1980s, and if I recall correctly a conservative government soon replaced the Liberals and undid certain things.

[Asher]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Does that mean Canadian provinces can refuse to abide by NAFTA?

I don't know, I don't see how it's the same thing. Kyoto is strictly about resource control, NAFTA is about free trade. Not the same thing.

And Alberta has benefitted greatly from NAFTA so it doesn't matter to us.

[Urban Ranger]

If Alberta refuses to comply, the Feds will just withdraw the army and sick the French on ya

[Asher]

Do you realize where most of the Army is stationed?

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher

I don't know, I don't see how it's the same thing. Kyoto is strictly about resource control, NAFTA is about free trade. Not the same thing.

And Alberta has benefitted greatly from NAFTA so it doesn't matter to us.

Put on your rubber boots; the BS is piling up quickly in Alberta.

The Kyoto agreement is about pollution control, it is certainly not "strictly about resource control as Asher "My daddies an oil man" claims.

The Alberta government is also lying like mad. The Globe and Mail reported:
"[Alberta Environment Minister Lorne Taylor] said there have been no consultations with the provinces, although the Kyoto accord has been the topic of intense federal-provincial discussions for years, most recently at a meeting of energy and environment ministers this spring in Charlottetown."

"That was not a consultation with particularly the energy-producing provinces," he said.

So what he saying is that Ottawa and the provinces have talked extensively, but there have been no consultations.

The Globe also reports: "Some months ago, Ottawa released a Kyoto implementation proposal consisting of four scenarios. Provinces, industry and the public were invited to submit comment, and one of the options is being revised in light of those comments."

So again, there was consultation, but Alberta lies and says there was no consultation.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
Do you realize where most of the Army is stationed?

Overseas doing peackeeping.

Anyways, UR said "Feds will just withdraw the army."

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Put on your rubber boots; the BS is piling up quickly in Alberta.

The Kyoto agreement is about pollution control, it is certainly not "strictly about resource control as Asher "My daddies an oil man" claims.

You seem to be under the impression that it doesn't have anything to do with resource consumption? Kyoto is about restricting the use of these resources to the point of reducing pollution.

Think about it for a while, Tingkai.

The Alberta government is also lying like mad. The Globe and Mail reported:
"[Alberta Environment Minister Lorne Taylor] said there have been no consultations with the provinces, although the Kyoto accord has been the topic of intense federal-provincial discussions for years, most recently at a meeting of energy and environment ministers this spring in Charlottetown."

"That was not a consultation with particularly the energy-producing provinces," he said.

So what he saying is that Ottawa and the provinces have talked extensively, but there have been no consultations.

Not quite, Tingkai darling. Energy and environmental ministers meeting isn't what Alberta wants, we want all of the Premiers to sit down at a table and talk about this, and ask why Ottawa refuses to do some real research on possible economic effects.

The Globe also reports: "Some months ago, Ottawa released a Kyoto implementation proposal consisting of four scenarios. Provinces, industry and the public were invited to submit comment, and one of the options is being revised in light of those comments."

So again, there was consultation, but Alberta lies and says there was no consultation.

The Prime Minister isn't lifting a finger. You're trying to act as if all of his subordinates meeting with the Premier's subordinates somewhat consistutes a sitdown meeting where the premiers and prime minister can all discuss the issue.

Typical Liberal spin, Tingkai.