Bully Losing Popularity Contest

[Kyle]

Hmm, I starting to wonder if the US should cut a deal with Saddam. In exchange for a free flow of oil, end support for anti-US terrorists, and to never attack US troops with WoMD, we'll leave him alone to do whatever he likes. You know, seeing as how illegal and immoral it would be to end a regime of a dictator.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

If Europe becomes more and more anti-american, then Americans themselves will close their shell, and start being Anti-Europeen. The fact is, we can do whatever we like, and we don't *really* need an internation coalition. As the europeans stop supporting American foreign policy, the Americans will start doing it alone. And perhaps the next time the Europeens have a problem, we won't join in.

[Dr Strangelove]

What "rude" interventions? The Europeans practically begged us to intervene in Somalia, Bosnia, and Kosovo. Is it the bombing of the factory in the Sudan? Has everyone forgotten that this incident was in retaliation for the first attempt to bring down the World Trade Centers?

[Joe R. Golowka]

Uh, no it wasn't Dr Strangelove. You have your facts mixed up.

Examples of US Imperialism include repeated interventions in Guatemala, Greece, Chille, Nicaragua, Venezuala, Iran, Panama, Indochina, Lebananon, Cuba, Angola, Bolivia, Saudi Arabia, Philippines, Hati, Zaire, and many more. Many agressors claim their aggression is 'retalitation' - the US is no different. The fact is that invading Iraq has nothing to do with 'defending America' - Iraq is no threat to the world's strongest military. Even it's neighbors don't feel threatened by him and oppose an invasion. And there's no evidence that Iraq has sponsored terrorism against the US for years. Al-Qaeda hates Sadaam - he's too tolerant for them.

BTW, it's not just Europe which is becoming anti-american, it's most of the world. Europe's criticism is largely hypocritical since the US has just inhereted their tradition of mass slaughter & imperialism. And when US Imperialism suits their needs Europe has no problem backing it.

[CyberGnu]

Ned, what would those policies be? Shutting off family planning money? Trying to get out of the international court agreement which Clinton signed?

Quite frankly, Gore has made very few statements whatsoever, and has ben critizized for that by his fellow democrats.

AFAIK, the only thing Gore is on record supporting was the war effort in afganistan... and considering the sentiments post 9/11, it would have been poliical suicide not to agree...

Of course, I could be wrong...

[Eroberer]

Joe, only a fool would say that we are on par with Europe so far in slaughter and imperialism. Or at least we're less direct. =) That doesn't make it right, of course, but I don't think the war on Sadaam is all that bad anyway. Europe is just being a bunch of hippies to go after us about that. I dunno about the other stuff we do.

The thing I find most disturbing is that European business that councils other businesses on how to deal with American corporations. I want to know what that's all about.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Examples of US Imperialism include repeated interventions in Guatemala, Greece, Chille, Nicaragua, Venezuala, Iran, Panama, Indochina, Lebananon, Cuba, Angola, Bolivia, Saudi Arabia, Philippines, Hati, Zaire, and many more.

He's right you know. We've been in it for our own interest more than most Americans realize. We hardly ever do something just because it is good. We usually want something out of it, or get something out of it.

[DinoDoc]

So?

[Imran Siddiqui]

What do you mean so?

So So!

If you **** up other countries just because you feel like it, everyone else is gonna hate you. Anyone that's played Civ should know that at the very least.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
What do you mean so?

You act like a country persueing its own interest is a bad thing. You can certainly argue weather or not an action actually is in our interest to do but I fail to see how actively persuing your interests is a bad thing.

And let's not bring Civ into this. I like the conquest victory, too much.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well who was arguing if it was good or bad? People weren't getting how people could hate the US. If by persuing your interests you step on everyone else, they hate you.

And yes, actively persuing your interest, if it leads to people hating you down the line is a very very bad thing.

[Kramerman]

The fact is that invading Iraq has nothing to do with 'defending America' - Iraq is no threat to the world's strongest military.

Excuse me!?
Sadaam has weapons of mass destruction and thats a threat to anybody and everybody. Taking him out is in everyway "protecting America". The fact that he has weapons of mass destruction isnt really the only scary part, but he openly hates America and is a totalitarian dictator in charge of weapons of mass destruction. Thats a dangerous combonation and we need to take him out before his WoMD programs mature. Saying that he is no threat to us is complete and total bull****. Saying any other primary reason why we want to take him out is complete and utter horse****. Simple as that.

Kman

[Imran Siddiqui]

Sadaam has weapons of mass destruction and thats a threat to anybody and everybody

So everyone that has WMD is a threat to anybody and everybody? Oh oh, better revolt against our government then.

but he openly hates America and is a totalitarian dictator in charge of weapons of mass destruction.

The Soviet Union openly hated America and were in charge of WMD, and I don't remember them using them against us.

--

I'll say it... he is NO threat to us .

[Kramerman]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Examples of US Imperialism include repeated interventions in Guatemala, Greece, Chille, Nicaragua, Venezuala, Iran, Panama, Indochina, Lebananon, Cuba, Angola, Bolivia, Saudi Arabia, Philippines, Hati, Zaire, and many more.

He's right you know. We've been in it for our own interest more than most Americans realize. We hardly ever do something just because it is good. We usually want something out of it, or get something out of it.

we hardly do anything just because its good? Nearly everytime there is a major natrual disaster, which is the first nation whos government is not only the first to send aid, but whos private citizens send aid too. Nearly every year there are floods somewhere in Latin America and our school district collects money, clothes, toys, etc to send to those in distress. Same thing for that major earthquake in turkey a couple of years ago. Same thing for Afghanistan. Bush gave millions to Africa for AIDS research. Same thing for almost everthing. Thats not to say we dont do things in our own interest - we do, and aften do them at the expense of others, but the US is probably one of the most selfless nations in the world. I wouldnt be surprised if there is a statistic that shows the US has given more aid to more nations thatn any other.

Kman

[Ned]

Originally posted by CyberGnu
Ned, what would those policies be? Shutting off family planning money? Trying to get out of the international court agreement which Clinton signed?

Quite frankly, Gore has made very few statements whatsoever, and has ben critizized for that by his fellow democrats.

AFAIK, the only thing Gore is on record supporting was the war effort in afganistan... and considering the sentiments post 9/11, it would have been poliical suicide not to agree...

Of course, I could be wrong...

I think Gore is being very cagey about Iraq. He has said nothing yet because Bush hasnt't declare yet what he intends to do. He can't come out and say he is against the use of ground forces, because Bush may decide not to use ground forces and simply use Air Power and rebellions by the Kurds et al. to win, just as we did in Afganistan.

Bush has said that he will consult Congress and our allies before making any final decisions. Could Gore advocate something different?