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**Stefu** · August 10, 2002, 14:57

Isn't this thread a train wreck? Yes, this thread is a train wreck.

Postia ante deletia!

**Tom31** · August 10, 2002, 14:58

Originally posted by Q Cubed
parents want to do the right things for their children, and if they make mistakes, so be it. nobody's the perfect parent.

That's exactly why they should err on the side of caution. Where possible, they shouldn't choose the thing that can't be undone.

**Dr Strangelove** · August 10, 2002, 15:01

Originally posted by Tom31

That's exactly why they should err on the side of caution. Where possible, they shouldn't choose the thing that can't be undone.

Now I can agree with you.

**Tom31** · August 10, 2002, 15:02

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
It became prevalent in the US during the 20th century when in-hospital birthing became dominant since medical recommendation favored circumcision.

Yes, and what was that medical recommendation based on? That it would prevent epilepsy!

**Q Classic** · August 10, 2002, 15:03

but see, the thing ss seems to be saying is that he was absolutely and totally convinced that it was the right thing to do. he seems to not have known that it could have been the wrong thing to do.

it's like saying that one should never take risks because one should always be cautious.

maybe it wasn't the right thing to do. all that matters is at the time of the event, it did not seem to be in error.

**Q Classic** · August 10, 2002, 15:05

whether it was in error or not is a different matter.

i'm not defending his attacks on asher. but by the same token, i don't think asher should be attacking him like that.

anyway, this thread is past its death time.

**Tom31** · August 10, 2002, 15:08

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Learn religion please and come back here.

How about if YOU learn some anatomy?

**Imran Siddiqui** · August 10, 2002, 15:18

My penis works fine. I have no complaints I'm glad for your concern, but sorry, I don't want anything you are selling

.

And Dr. Stranglove, a medical profession, has shown most of your claims that it is detrimental to be wrong. And yes, if you are going to bring something up, please know what the Hell you are talking about.

**Tom31** · August 10, 2002, 15:30

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
My penis works fine.

I'm sure it does. U don't have to keep reminding us!

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
And Dr. Stranglove, a medical profession, has shown most of your claims that it is detrimental to be wrong.

Ask a guy who had serious complications from circumcision whether it was detrimental or not. Do you think it's OK to play Russian roulette with a kid's sex organ?

**SuperSneak** · August 10, 2002, 15:36

I think it is a bit overblown in regards to "mishaps". There are mishaps in surgery and medicine all the time. Perhaps one day everyone will do the same thing, cut or uncut...but until that time, a parent has a right to make the decision and it is not taken lightly. Hell, if it hadn't made any difference to us, I could have saved some money in the process.
Funny thing is, the circumcision actually ended up costing more than the birth.
And I'd be curious to know what they do with the removed skin? Do the removing parties sell it to burn centers, or what?

**Tom31** · August 10, 2002, 15:42

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Learn religion please and come back here. You love to speak out of your ass a whole lot without any knowledge. First thing to learn is that the sign of the covenant wasn't a sacrifice.

"Similarly with regard to circumcision, one of the reasons for it is, in my opinion, the wish to bring about a decrease in sexual intercourse and a weakening of the organ in question, so that this activity be diminished and the organ be in as quiet a state as possible."

--Maimonides, medieval Jewish rabbi, philosopher, and physician

Moses Maimonides: The Guide of the Perplexed: Circumcision

http://www.cirp.org/library/cultural/maimonides/

A file containing quotatations from Maimomides regarding male circumcision.

**Stefu** · August 10, 2002, 15:44

And I'd be curious to know what they do with the removed skin? Do the removing parties sell it to burn centers, or what?

Oh, you know the old joke - they plant them on the ground, and when they're all grown up, they send them to Finland to be policemen.

Finland swappable with nation joke is told in, of course.

**Tom31** · August 10, 2002, 15:49

Originally posted by SuperSneak
There are mishaps in surgery and medicine all the time.

Exactly. That's why doctors shouldn't be operating on infants unless the infant needs surgery. If there is doubt, which is the most you can possibly say for circumcision, then it shouldn't be done.

**SuperSneak** · August 10, 2002, 16:02

Hmmm....that's your opinion and it is valid. At the time of my research I was told that there was some evidence of an aid in fighting STD's. I by no means canvassed the entire medical community, but I trust the people I spoke to and went for it. everything has turned out all right, so now it just remains to be seen whether it ends up being proven to fight off infectious disease. Seemed like about a 50-50 shot at the time.

**Tom31** · August 10, 2002, 16:02

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
In the US parents can give consent even to elective procedures as their child's legal gardian.

Doctors have ethical and legal obligations to their patients. In this case, the patient is the child. Medical ethics don't allow doctors to perform medically unnecessary surgery on patients who cannot give informed consent.

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