Rugby - The game they play in heaven

[finbar]

Originally posted by Caligastia
They are New Zealand's national rugby team, and arguably the best in the world. NZ has a proud rugby tradition that spans over 100 years. The english invented the game - we taught them how to play it. Nobody can deny that NZ have historically dominated rugby

Objectivity rears its blessed head.

[SuperSneak]

Yeah...I'd like to see some hard statistics that prove just who is the dominant club.
That's who I'll back.
I'm already a Cubs, Lions and Blazers fan. I need to back a winner, no matter how snotty their fans are.

[finbar]

Currently, in all seriousness, there's very little between the top international teams, certainly in the southern hemisphere. The Wallabies (Australia) and the All Blacks (New Zealand) would have it over the Springboks (South Africa), with the Pumas (Argentina) bringing up the rear.

It's hard to know how the southern hemisphere teams currently stack up against some of the top northern hemisphere teams - England and France - when they're at full strength. Australia and New Zealand both tour there in November, so we'll know more then.

Just have a look at the game if you get a chance, Sneak. It is, IMHO, the most interesting, unpredictable - and potentially most rewarding for the spectator - game going around. It's a very tactical game and all the richer for it. It's also a bit schizophrenic in that it is, essentially, a very simple game, but it does contain some of the most obscure laws ever invented which are often the cause for great debate.

[SuperSneak]

I think that's the problem with getting into the spirit of an unfamiliar sport--the letter seems to get in the way.

With soccer and hockey, I pretty much gave up because the offsides rule would stop play every time it got interesting.

I must admit that the scrum in rugby is fascinating...don't quite know what they are trying to accomplish though.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by SuperSneak
Is the US team (Eagles) in the same group or what? Is this like the World Cup with regional qualifiers?

Suprisingly, the US team were the only ones to score a try against Australia in the last world cup. Its suprising because the US are pretty small as far as world rugby goes. They usually play "pacific rim" teams like Japan and Fiji.

Check to see if you can get Fox Sports World, and support the All Blacks. If you want dominant, the NZ team are the ones to support. Just look for the black uniform and the maori haka.

One more thing...make sure its rugby UNION you are watching, not rugby league. Rugby league is a bastardized version of the original - union. You will know if you are watching rugby league because there is no competition for the ball at the tackle.

Finbar-
I usually try to be objective, but even you cannot deny that New Zealand have achieved the best results overall in rugby history.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Caligastia
Finbar-
I usually try to be objective, but even you cannot deny that New Zealand have achieved the best results overall in rugby history.

I'm putting aside any qualitative judgements in the cause of converting Sneak to the game. He's going to have enough trouble nutting out the tunnel in the lineout and last feet at the breakdown without worrying about who might or might not have won the most matches in rugby history.

[finbar]

Originally posted by SuperSneak
With soccer and hockey, I pretty much gave up because the offsides rule would stop play every time it got interesting.

In fact, the offside rule - in any sport in which it features - is the greatest guard against a team taking cheap advantage. Ultimately, it stops a player simply positioning him or herself permanently beside the goal (or, in rugby, the try line) their team is attacking.

I must admit that the scrum in rugby is fascinating...don't quite know what they are trying to accomplish though.

The scrum is, effectively, a duel for possession of the ball.

I suppose it's a rough equivalent of the jump ball in basketball. The difference, though, is that the team that puts the ball into the scrum retains the advantage - technically - because the odds are they should win the scrum. As is only right, because a team is awarded a put-in to a scrum when the opposition has breached a law.

Having won the ball from the scrum, the team then controls the ball, and, therefore, the play. But a team putting the ball into the scrum can lose control of the ball. It doesn't happen often, but when it does, it's the result of great play by the opposition.

Scrums look like a test of pure muscle but they're much more than that. A truly great scrum outfit (called "the pack") deals (as well as in strength) in the timing of their drive against the opposition pack, the coordination of the drive (given that their 8 players in a pack), the angles at which they drive, and so on. So winning an opposition ball in a scrum is a massive achievement.

[Havak]

If it makes you feel better, I could go either way between Russell and Robinson

It makes me feel much better thanks.

what are you calling a first-class game? Do you include the Zurich Cup?

I use First-class to represent any competition officially endorsed by the RFU, so yep the Zurich Premiership (league) and Championship (play off) are included. Given Eddie was saying only last week he was concerned some of his players were approaching the likelihood of 25 games in a season you can see what a major problem we have! You’ve seen we are trying to face it head on however.

Stuff ups and problems are always someone else's fault

You know Alan Jones does almost sound like he could be Jack Rowell’s brother – not that I’m suggesting Jack has been anywhere near a public lavatory recently of course…

When your lad can kick goals; when he has skippered his team to a WRC win; when he has been the only class player in an average side and has constantly risen to the occasion; and, most important of all, when he doesn't have a major question mark alongside his temperament, then I'll entertain a discussion on the matter.

A lock kicking goals is not concentrating on his core business, which is why JE lacked in the set pieces compared to Martin. WRC win – be serious he plays for England!! There is no question mark over Jonno rising to the occasion, but he has had the misfortune to be a class player in a below average side that’s true (witness when his team is diluted by celts) . And there’s no question mark over his temperament – get in his face and you go down. You always know, therefore, where you stand with him (the tree hugger always looked like he might kiss you?).

Now then were JE still playing he would have several things to achieve to even get into the same league – series wins in South Africa, a grand slam in the tri-nations (to match Johnsons in the five nations) and, perhaps most importantly, to have achieved something (anything?) domestically instead of being tucked away in a team that will never achieve anything like the Reds. International rugby is the peak of the sport but the truly great players have been successful at club level too – JE wasted his club career don’t you think?

In case you were wondering that was all written with a large smile on my face.

You can only beat whomever lines up against you in whatever shape they're in.

So true. So go back and look at exactly what you did beat in 99 perhaps – neither semi nor final set the world afire or did anything to showcase Union?

I would suggest S. Mortlock for A. Healey solved your goal kicking problem in the first place and, most importantly, without breaking up the precious half-back/5-8 combination?

But it costs me a proven game winner for a lad who seems to be improving into one? I want proven quality, and if I need to shed another Aussie for that then so be it.

Seriously whilst Healey will never get a break from any Aussie after refusing to roll over for the uber-patriots his qualities as a rugby player are beyond doubt. Fast, smart strong, not Australian. What more does he need?

By the way did I really see you correct the Tri-nations XV and put Smith at blindside Finbar? Surely not!?

If you need that long to come up with a half-decent reason, that's fine.

Heck no – I just didn’t want to be spending my own money stating the utterly obvious.

All of the above?

It was certainly close enough not to argue with.

It's hard to know how the southern hemisphere teams currently stack up against some of the top northern hemisphere teams

Really? I think we can take a stab if we try.

England hasn’t lost to Australia since 1999 after all. But at least they are prepared to play us – the All Blacks have been the invisible opponents since 1999.

Okay having upset everyone now I’ll get some work done.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by finbar


I'm putting aside any qualitative judgements in the cause of converting Sneak to the game. He's going to have enough trouble nutting out the tunnel in the lineout and last feet at the breakdown without worrying about who might or might not have won the most matches in rugby history.

In other words - no comment.

Any luck with looking up those stats for the last 10 years?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
But at least they are prepared to play us – the All Blacks have been the invisible opponents since 1999.

I regret just as much as you that NZ didnt play England last year, but dont worry, you'll get a chance to see us beat you in november.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Given Eddie was saying only last week he was concerned some of his players were approaching the likelihood of 25 games in a season you can see what a major problem we have! You’ve seen we are trying to face it head on however.

Your mob need to do something about the problem in a hurry. Here, it includes Tests, S12s, Australia A matches, club footy, etc, so it's pretty much the same calculation. The magical number here, as I said, has been set at 30. The clubs and the ARU here have been doing their sums over the last week or so deciding which players can play club footy before the tour and which are in mothballs.

You know Alan Jones does almost sound like he could be Jack Rowell’s brother – not that I’m suggesting Jack has been anywhere near a public lavatory recently of course…

I honestly can't believe anyone walking the earth could be as vile as Alan Jones.

In case you were wondering that was all written with a large smile on my face.

I naturally assumed that on the basis that you couldn't possibly have been serious with any of it.

So go back and look at exactly what you did beat in 99 perhaps – neither semi nor final set the world afire or did anything to showcase Union?

I don't think setting anything on fire or showcasing anything is the point. You get what you get on the day. If you want to showcase the game, play nothing but Barbarians matches.

But it costs me a proven game winner for a lad who seems to be improving into one?

Methinks you should locate some tapes of some of his performances in S12 and Tests this season.

By the way did I really see you correct the Tri-nations XV and put Smith at blindside Finbar? Surely not!?

Yeah, I know. You jam 'em in where they fit in those silly best-of combos.

Okay having upset everyone now I’ll get some work done.

Anyone else notice that he skipped over explaining what he got up to on his Bank Holiday weekend? Obviously painting the kitchen for Mrs Havak.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Caligastia
In other words - no comment.

Make of it what you will.

Any luck with looking up those stats for the last 10 years?

I've had a sh*tload of work the last couple of days. Which has happened a couple of times recently. It has to stop!

I should be able to get onto it tomorrow.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by finbar
I should be able to get onto it tomorrow.

Ill have to get my hands on some good rugby stats books. My wife and I are going to NZ to visit the family december 23rd till january 11th, so I will have a look in the bookshops over there.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Caligastia




Ill have to get my hands on some good rugby stats books. My wife and I are going to NZ to visit the family december 23rd till january 11th, so I will have a look in the bookshops over there.

The stats will, no doubt, be printed on the back of your Air NZ ticket, on the menu for your inflight meal, all over the inflight magazine and on the Arrivals monitor at Auckland Airport.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by finbar


The stats will, no doubt, be printed on the back of your Air NZ ticket, on the menu for your inflight meal, all over the inflight magazine and on the Arrivals monitor at Auckland Airport.

What are you saying...?

I think we both know why you dont want to talk about All Black history... Fine, we both know the truth, I can leave it at that.