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Umatilla? What do they keep/produce there?
DeepO
DeepO
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I know Ive asked this question before on another thread but does anyone think (or thinks that they would have thought at the time) that the US/West should have attacked the Soviet Union before it aquired Nuclear weapons
It just seems to me that the exact same logic used in the "Get rid of the regime in Iraq/Iran/North Korea/Libya before they get nukes and attack us with them" argument could have been used in the late 40s/early 50s as "Get rid of the Russian regime before he gets nukes and attacks us with them"
If anything, the USSR danger would have seemed to be greater than the modern ones - None of the "Axis of Evil" nations are likely to invade the west.
Any thoughts anyone?Comment
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No, they shouldn't have attacked. As it is now, the Marshall plan made the Americans the only winners of WWII, as they ensured to have a market for their goods... they were the only ones left with enough factories, all the rest was bombed to pieces. Europe is still recovering from that same Marshall plan, on the outside it was a humanitarian thing, but in reality it was a purely economic tool. Very clever.
If they would have attacked the Russians, there was no chance they could have gained the economic upper hand, and would have entered a war they couldn't have won. Don't forget that the Russians are the ones that military won in WWII, if America would have attacked at that time, they would most likely have lost much more then they could bear. Western Europe for starters, but most likely they also had to face an invasion, something that hasn't happened to the US in its existence.
How the Russian danger is resolved is by pure economic pressure, something that the US was/is good at. It was the lest costly of wars, and even worked in the advantage of the US. They wouldn't have been the superpower they are now if it wasn't for the Marshall plan and the following cold war...
DeepOComment
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Afghanistan - questionable, but it's still very divided along tribal lines. I voted yes.
Iran - a must...sponsors of terrorism, serial human rights abusers...
Iraq - see above, only worse
Israel - I didn't vote for Israel, for one reason. There's no Palestinian Authority option. If there were a PA option, I'd vote to sack them both.
North Korea - well, they do seem to be trying, but they're still serial human rights abusers...a bit like Cuba
Lybia - not so urgent, but their human rights record sucks...
China - the Chinese government must go, for the stability of the Asia-Pacific region, and human rights in general
Russia - they're trying. but they're corruption-riddled, can't control their military, and keep killing and raping civilians in Chechnya
Zimbabwe - so important...Mugabe's one of the most open, unapologetic, evil men on earth...
Saudi Arabia - give the Saudis some democracy...kill the rich sheikhs
Yemen - hotbed of terrorism
Pakistan - military dictator. Bring back Bhutto.
India - get the hell out of Kashmir
Indonesia - get the hell out of Aceh, West Papua, South Sulawesi, and all the other occupied territories...
Phillipines - one of the few I support. Arroyo is a decent, honest individual...good on her.
Sri Lanka - stop screwing the Tamils
Belarus - don't know enough about it
EU - actually try and solve the Middle Eastern problem, instead of being 100% behind terrorist Arafat, AND stop screwing Milo Djukanovic and Montenegro.
United States - bush is an evil, evil man...his foreign policy isn't so bad as his domestic policy...
Mongolia - don't know enough about it
Turkey - seems to be doing a decent job, controlling radicalism, and encouraging reform...
Cuba - they shoot protesting students. enough said.
Yugoslavia - Kostunica is another Milosevic. Djindic is corrupt, but more fair. AND they refuse to allow Montenegro to break away.
Macedonia - they're nationalists, and they keep screwing the albanians...Comment
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Burma would top my list. A genuinely evil government.
The genesis of the "evil Finn" concept- Evil, evil FinlandComment
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Except they are oppressing the Kurds, and torture is still a widely encouraged interrogation practise. Not so decent in my view. But they are democratic, which in itself is good.Originally posted by Darkness' Edge
Turkey - seems to be doing a decent job, controlling radicalism, and encouraging reform...
DeepOComment
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Turkey is making a lot of progress... despite their government is not so good they are still making a lot of progress and things can only get for them once they try to meet requirements to join the EU.
Now this I had to respond to..... some of it was outrageously funny....
They have an interim government with Hamid Karzai, whom I happen to respect.Afghanistan - questionable, but it's still very divided along tribal lines. I voted yes.
North Korea trying? In what ways?North Korea - well, they do seem to be trying, but they're still serial human rights abusers...a bit like Cuba
And what do you think will replace it? Shall the Republic of China be brought back?China - the Chinese government must go, for the stability of the Asia-Pacific region, and human rights in general
Give Putin a break he had a bad situation on his hands.Russia - they're trying. but they're corruption-riddled, can't control their military, and keep killing and raping civilians in Chechnya
Bhutto? The one that is up to their neck with corruption scandals? Musharaff is here to stay.Pakistan - military dictator. Bring back Bhutto.
Do they have a choice otherwise? No they do not. Terrorists keep killing their civilians.India - get the hell out of Kashmir
Why should they? A unified country with a respectable leader, could bring stability. The problem is they haven't had any respectable leaders until recently with President Megawati Sukarnoputri. Give her a chance because a multiethnic country can survive.Indonesia - get the hell out of Aceh, West Papua, South Sulawesi, and all the other occupied territories...
Do they have a choice?Sri Lanka - stop screwing the Tamils
Well parts of the EU are not behind Arafat like Spain and Italy...EU - actually try and solve the Middle Eastern problem, instead of being 100% behind terrorist Arafat, AND stop screwing Milo Djukanovic and Montenegro.
Are you whacked out in the head or something? What have you been smoking? Bush is a good leader and will most likely be elected in 2004.United States - bush is an evil, evil man...his foreign policy isn't so bad as his domestic policy...
When did they do that? They gave the albanians their rights and had to defend their national soverignity when attacked by Albanian rebels.Macedonia - they're nationalists, and they keep screwing the albanians...For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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I don't understand why Macedonia is on this list for example.
I would hesitate with Russia, but..."I realise I hold the key to freedom,
I cannot let my life be ruled by threads" The Web Frogs
Middle East!Comment
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Oh, I wouldn't argue with that, it's undoubtable. However, I don't think it's accurate to say the Nazi PoW camps were more humane or even as human as the vast majority of Allied camps, particularly the American ones for the Germans in Kansas. An over all comparison, IMO, would show that the German camps were of far less humane conditions, overall, than the Allied camps. We will of course find instances of bad treatment on all sides.Originally posted by DeepO
Therefore, I still believe that in general, the treatment of PoWs in the camps is nothing in comparison with the concentration camps, and was a lot more humane than for instance the treatment of US PoWs in the Vietnam war
My grandfather liberated several PoW camps, and he can give you firsthand accounts. He found the condition of the prisoners to be quite bad, and many (though it varied from camp to camp depending on the commandant, i suppose) of the prisoners spoke of mistreatment.
Certainly, one can't argue that the Germans treated the Soviet PoWs terribly. Of course, the reverse is probably equally as true.Tutto nel mondo è burlaComment
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I heard quite some stories about general mistreatment as well... my great uncle spent nearly 2 years in a 'good' concentration camp (for being a subversive element, they never were able to proof he was in the resistance). He was lucky as it was a labour camp, and had nothing to do with extermination.. the treatment there was relatively ok. I never heard any story from him directly, he died when I was about 10 years old, but my grandfather (a 'collaberating' resistance member, he was a 'gendarme' (some kind of a policeman) for the Nazis so that he could help the resistance) told stories that were very hard to believe. And I will never forget the soft voice that he used when telling me things of the war, after over 40 years he stil was very touched just remembering what had happened.Originally posted by Boris Godunov
My grandfather liberated several PoW camps, and he can give you firsthand accounts. He found the condition of the prisoners to be quite bad, and many (though it varied from camp to camp depending on the commandant, i suppose) of the prisoners spoke of mistreatment.
"Never again... " were always his last words after a story, and he was very right.
DeepOComment
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BTW: The EU is not a government..Try my Lord of the Rings MAP out: Lands of Middle Earth v2 NEWS: Now It's a flat map, optimized for Conquests
The new iPod nano: nanoComment
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Goddamit
I post my thing about whether the west should have invaded Russia or not over a day ago and have only got one reply.
Im guessing its cos all the warmongers here realise that to reject the idea of attacking Russia 50 years ago while being of the opinion that Iraq and numerous other government must go is completly hypocritical.
PLEASE! Someone explain how the two are differentComment
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Cuba - they shoot protesting students. enough said.
Ich bin der Zorn Gottes. Wer sonst ist mit mir?Comment
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Okay, so my reply doesn't count, I guess... maybe starting a new thread would help, it isn't exactly the same subject as this thread...Originally posted by Zulu Elephant
Goddamit
I post my thing about whether the west should have invaded Russia or not over a day ago and have only got one reply.
DeepOComment
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The treatment prisoners received in German PoW camps varied. The book, A Distant Prayer, is written by the brother, I believe, of a man who was shot down on a bombing run. His conditions were terrible, but he spoke with many officers who said that they had excellent treatment - so I guess it depended on your rank.
I don't know about which governments should be removed, because I'm not sure what kind of government would replace it, or who would replace who, but here's my list:
Iran, Iraq, North Korea and China.Comment
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