Why you can't satisfy ANY demands by terrorists before ridding of every one of them

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by VetLegion
just look at FARC for example, first terrorist organization ever that government made an agreement with to leave them alone and give them practicly a part of country.

The FARC isn't a terrorist group, it's a guerilla organization.

[Sirotnikov]

The point is not satisfying terrorists but those masses (muslim mainstream, remember) that terrorists recruit from. that's the only long term solution.

Obviously the masses should be satisfied and cared for and promoted.

But you can't do that, without first eliminating the terrorists.

Most lefties want to jump right ahead to the long term solution, which is easy.

They prefer to avoid conflict and war against the extremsits, so they ignore them, thinking they could slowly pull the rug udner their feet.

They can't.

That's the whole point in Israel too.

Theoretically, I don't have a damn problem if Israel is dismantled and we form an Israeli Palestinian union or something.

But the situation on the ground does not allow it, and suggests that Jews will be hurt in such a scenario, and will be kicked out.

I would love a peace process and creating Palestine. I do not wish to create PLO-Land though. PLO is a terrorist organization.



As far as Imran goes - I didn't attack him but used him as an example. He did openly say the things I quoted him on.

Just because I disagree with it, and use it in my arguements doesn't mean a thing about our personal relations.

I consider him a friend, and would love to sit down and talk / drink with him.


Heck, in my real life, a half of my friends are lefties like CyberGnu, Osweld and so on.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Siro... if you 'stick to your guns', you will have to exterminate every Muslim in the MidEast. I don't think you guys have the stomach for that. You must see the problems, why people are in such despair they are willing to kill. Solve those problems. I can BET you, if Palestine was as rich as Israel (or a European nation), there would be much, much less terrorism, almost nil against Israel.

[chequita guevara]

Siro, you way is, decades of long and bloddy warfare before finally giving in to what was on the table in the first place. Our way is, do what you should do, and pull the rug out from underneath the support of the terrorists.

Both ways work, one just takes a lot longer and a lot more lives. That's you way.

[Faboba]

Am I the only one who thinks there's something missing in the title of this thread?

Ridding of?

[Lincoln]

So if one is rich he does not commit terrorism? Tell that to OBL. Maybe he didn't read the script.

[Boris Godunov]

Obviously the masses should be satisfied and cared for and promoted.

But you can't do that, without first eliminating the terrorists.

Wrong-o. You will never eliminate terrorism so long as a large number of the masses are still legitimately aggrieved by the actions of the United States. You've got it backwards. You seem to forget that oppression breeds extremists, not the other way around.

[Lincoln]

Some people only understand the blood that is flowing out of their veins. You cannot reason with fanatics. That is why they are called fanatics.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Lincoln
So if one is rich he does not commit terrorism? Tell that to OBL. Maybe he didn't read the script.

OBL doesn't act alone... Hell, I don't think he even does any actual terrorism - just the 'paper work'.

[Imran Siddiqui]

So if one is rich he does not commit terrorism? Tell that to OBL. Maybe he didn't read the script.

If the Muslim world was as rich as the European one, OBL wouldn't have many friends, and not nearly enough to do anything greater than car bombs.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Some people only understand the blood that is flowing out of their veins. You cannot reason with fanatics. That is why they are called fanatics.

And there are reasons they become fanatics! Duh, they aren't born that way. Eliminate the reasons for being fanatical and watch the fanatics dissapear.

[Sirotnikov]

A small group of fanatics decide to start taking on both the government of Saudi Arabia and those who support it. Even thought the people of Saudi Arabia have legitimate greivences, by Siro and Chris's logic, we must not give in, because we will be giving in to the terrorists, who are only one tiny group out of all the others who share these concerns.

No we must not give in, and we must defeat the terrorists.

And after that, only then, can we rationally rethink our position and make changes. If we make the changes appear a result of "caving in", it will promote more violence.

We infact should make terror obsolete, by not letting it bear fruit.


As I've said, I'm not against a pal state. I have supported it and will - in peace talks. If I will be conviced of true peace, I won't mind sharing Jerusalem or what ever.

But I do not plan to give up to bullies.

I don't want to die because Israel won't stop using collective punishment and oppressing its natives.

Oh blah blah.

tell me, was WWII a collective punishment of the germans??

It's god damn freaking war. Not a toy game. When you need to, you put a curfew.

The same thing with Israel. Terrorism in a lot of cases has convinced the occupying power that it just isn't worth the time and they thus decide to leave. Hell, in recent history, it happened in Lebanon! Don't sit there and tell me it doesn't work

Imran - terrorism was what made us go in lebanon in the first palce.

We didn't conquer it in 56, or 67 or 73, because until the late 70s, Lebanon wasn't a base for PLO.

And don't even dare call lebanese terrorism "liberation". The lebanese are now under Syrian occupation and their "liberation" groups are cooperating with it.

And you know well that the Syrian occupation is much more cruel than the Israeli one.

The whole point is that we never gained anything from Lebanon. We only stayed there because it regenerated terror.

Now we left without a deal. So now
a) the Palestinians saw "hey it works" and started the intifada
b) hezballa deplyed hudreds of missiles threatening deeper Israel
c) hezballa supports funds, weapons and troops to Palestinians.

Great solution

Siro: You have a choice. Either make amends and give in to the demands of the population of the nation those terrorists come from, or you could declare outright genocidal war, where a vast majority of your people die as well. Your choice, but I know I'd rather avoid a massive war where both sides are decimated.

Israel is ready to duscuss the demands of the palestinains. If instead of the intifada, Arafat had began a PR campaign, in 12 months he would have had more territory and more control.

but he went on and started a second lebanon. which is why Sharon was elected and why the Palestinian state looks farther away then ever.

Basically, all the trust and affection Israelis built up for 7 years is gone.

Great result

But then again, were we belgium, we'd already had packed our bags and left.

[Lincoln]

The point is that his riches did not prevent him form being a fanatic. Money has nothing to do with the behaviour of fanatics. They can find whatever excuse they want whether rich or poor.

[Sirotnikov]

And there are reasons they become fanatics! Duh, they aren't born that way. Eliminate the reasons for being fanatical and watch the fanatics dissapear

But you are forgetting several key elements.

You can't simply eleminate the reasons.

you must also eleminiate the current active fanatics and make sure that they don't spread more hate.

What you're asking israel to do, is give up all demands, and then hope that all the fanatics decide to go back being normal.

[Ecthy]

Quit whining and give them a freaking state in the 67 borders with Israel arranging police structure for 10 years, including the organizaiton of autonome police that actually works after said 10 years. OR 5 years, whatever. It's the answer to all problems. But no. More land more land more land.