You're Fired - Because You're Israelis

[Rogan Josh]

'geek' or 'greek'?

(same thing I suppose )

[Zoid]

This is just wrong. Even if they were actively supporting the Israeli goverment (which I don´t know if they do) this should still not be reason for firing them.

It´s not like they´ve participated in IDF attacks on Palestine...

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Kamrat X
It´s not like they´ve participated in IDF attacks on Palestine...

As an excuse, that would prevent valid sanctions on any country.

[Eli]

Even if they were actively supporting the Israeli goverment (which I don´t know if they do) this should still not be reason for firing them.

I think that Dr. Miriam Schlesinger was/is a member of Amnesty Intl.

[Dauphin]

I think that is reason enough to sack anyone. They're nothing but troublemakers.

[Sirotnikov]

I didn't mean 'nationality' in that sense. I meant, they were not fired because their homeland was Israel. Or in other words, they were not discriminated against on a personal level for the makeup of their genes. There was no objection to them being Jewish or Israeli by birth - only being associated with the Israeli state.

Eh, you're mixing up things again.

Being Israeli is not in their genes. Nationality is by choise - a choise to be a part of a nation.

Being Jewish (aka Hebrew) is in their genes. It's ethnicity.

They were indeed fired exactly because they saw Israel as their homeland, as the text quoted by me earlier prove, since they were required to leave Israel and stop supporting it, as a pre-condition to keeping thier jobs.

True, they weren't fired for being Jewish, so it isn't out right anti-semitism.

Nationality is not ethnicity, but you tend to mix those up, and I have to correct you.

Look at the US in the cold war. Would it have been usual practice to have Russians on the boards of American journal?[ Only if they left the USSR and cut off all ties with their homeland I think. (This actually led to a lot of scientific discoveries being made twice.)

Correction: You are infact disproving your own claim of this not being based on nationality. You are now trying to explain to me that the decision was based not on their race, but rather on their nation being considered a rogue state.

So it is based on nationality.

This is exactly the reason why Israel currently is not employing Palestinians and disallows them to come into Israel.

Yet you, somehow, manage to find it perfectly normal, to discriminate against Israelis, for being from Israel, while in the same time, you are criticizing Israel, for discriminating against Palestinians due to them being from Palestine.

You, Sir, are a two faced biggot. And your bias against Israelis does not suggest good things about you.

There is really nothing different here. (I still disapprove because it inhibits the pursuit of learning.)

You continiously mess up even the slightest of terms.

Furthermore, this shows you do not actually find anything wrong with discriminating against Israelis. You do however often accuse Israel of being an appartheid like state, for it's similar actions against the Palestinians, based on their nationality.

So tell me Mr Sirotnikov (what a good Iraeli name that is...)

Sweet, taking it out against my user name.

Figures, since you apparently know nothing about the topic discussed, and are both ignorant enough to confuse nationality with ethnicity, and biggotted enough to theoretically support the same discrimination against Israelis, that you criticize when employed against Palestinians.

As for my actual nickname - it being Israeli or not, has nothing to do with anything. It's my last name, and it's origin is Ukranian.

If you can't argue about the facts, keep your mouth shut.

are you just dumb or anti-christian (or anti-anglo-saxon if you want to think of it as a racist thing)?

I think I proved you being the dumb one here.

If you disagree, I can try and explain it again.

[Ecthy]

*wonders if DarkCloud has created more lists than times Siro has called others "two-faced bigot" in debates*

calm down

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Eli

Even if they were actively supporting the Israeli goverment (which I don´t know if they do) this should still not be reason for firing them.

I think that Dr. Miriam Schlesinger was/is a member of Amnesty Intl.

...and we know what they think of Israel

[CyberGnu]

Siro, what the hell are you talking about?

Rogan hasn't talked about anything but nationality. Like russian, american or israeli.

Take a deep breath, admit you made a mistake, and move on. Going on really makes you look stupid...

[Sikander]

[SIZE=1] Originally posted by Sirotnikov

If you disagree, I can try and explain it again.

It won't help Rogan Josh, he can't read. He ascribes to his opponent in a debate the stance he wants his opponent to have and then argues against his own straw man ineffectually.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by CyberGnu
Siro, what the hell are you talking about?

Rogan hasn't talked about anything but nationality. Like russian, american or israeli.

Take a deep breath, admit you made a mistake, and move on. Going on really makes you look stupid...

Oh come now, are you willing to be intellectually dishonest enough to support Rogan Josh just to further your own hatred of Israel? Are you willing to support the bashing of Slavic names because they happen to sound "Israeli" to a moron? Rogan was talking out of his a$s as usual and managed to alert everyone to his dislike (at best) for Siro's ethnicity. Names are ethnic not national. Of course your own hatred of Israel is so strong that it is featured in signatures, but I nonetheless expect a higher standard of discourse from you.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
I disagree with the firings.

I also, however, disagree with this sentiment:

He added: 'These dismissals may easily become the beginning of something much bigger that will rapidly get out of hand... What a terrifying prospect. We've been here before.'

How about this one?

Her decision to sack them reflected "my interpretation of what a boycott of Israel means," she said. "Many people in Europe have signed a boycott against Israel. Israel has gone beyond just war crimes. It is horrific what is going on there. Many of us would like to talk about it as some kind of Holocaust which the world will eventually wake up to, much too late, of course, as they did with the last one."

[CyberGnu]

Sikander, are you and Siro reading a different thread than I am?

This is what Rogan Josh has posted so far:

I also agree that it was wrong to sack them.

One should note however, that they were not fired because of their nationality, but because they work for Israeli institutions. It is fairly acceptable in academic circles to restrict boards of journals or international studies to the members of certain institutaions. So, from a proceedural standpoint, removing Israeli institutions from the list of 'acceptable' institutions is OK.

To my mind though, institutions should only be boycotted on academic grounds - not political ones. In physics at least the Israeli Universities are top notch, so the sackings were completely wrong and abhorent.

I should watch what I am typing here because I am currently sharing my office with a visitor from Tel-Aviv University....

...

I didn't mean 'nationality' in that sense. I meant, they were not fired because their homeland was Israel. Or in other words, they were not discriminated against on a personal level for the makeup of their genes. There was no objection to them being Jewish or Israeli by birth - only being associated with the Israeli state.

Look at the US in the cold war. Would it have been usual practice to have Russians on the boards of American journal? Only if they left the USSR and cut off all ties with their homeland I think. (This actually led to a lot of scientific discoveries being made twice.)

There is really nothing different here. (I still disapprove because it inhibits the pursuit of learning.)

So tell me Mr Sirotnikov (what a good Iraeli name that is...), are you just dumb or anti-christian (or anti-anglo-saxon if you want to think of it as a racist thing)?



What is it you are referring to? The comment 'Mr Sirotnikov (what a good Iraeli name that is...)'? Quite frankly, I don't even know what he means. But to deduce from that statement that he dislikes Siros ethnicity is plain paranoia.

So you are basically joining Siro in making an ass out of yourself... Not to mention advancing the view that a pro-israeli will scream 'anti-semitism' at anything and everything.


Finally, I don't hate Israel par se. I hate the actions and policies carried out by Israel. If/when the Israeli people starts behaving like decent human beings I'll start supporting them as well. But I know you guys don't like to take responsibility for your actions, so I don't exactly hold my breath...

[Adalbertus]

This is exactly the reason why Israel currently is not employing Palestinians and disallows them to come into Israel.

Yet you, somehow, manage to find it perfectly normal, to discriminate against Israelis, for being from Israel, while in the same time, you are criticizing Israel, for discriminating against Palestinians due to them being from Palestine.

Siro, this comes over as "It is ok, when Israel discriminates against Palestinians, but not when other people discriminate against Israel because of the former." At least you didn't disapprove your government's behaviour.

How many suicide bombers were employed in Israel (and not hindered to go to work) at the time they committed their terract? I'd doubt there are many.

[Ramo]

I certainly disagree with this. People should not be punished for the actions of their government.