Why turn your back on the wisdom of the ages?

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Lorizael
We are not a part of evolution. We are a product of it. Evolution is a force or "entity" unto itself.

I'm not so sure of this. I can see what you're saying, but is life a product of evolution, or is evolution a product of life? I can imagine a lifeform that doesn't evolve, but can't imagine evolution without a lifeform. There would still be change no doubt, but I don't think evolution applies to rocks wearing away to sand and such things. If you broaden out the term 'evolution' to 'causality' or 'laws of nature' it becomes clearer.

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse


Ah - this is what I am talking about. Its actually an ancient idea but still relevant - do you know the antecedence?

Are you talking about a passage in the Bible the phrase was in (or derived from)? It's a proverb isn't it? (really rusty on my Bible passages, so be kind if it isn't )

[Lorizael]

Were the first self-replicating strands of amino acids life?

And while the first life may have spurned evolution, we are not the first lifeforms. Countless generations have passed. And now we are at the sentient, environment questioning level of humans. Evolution controls much more than ourselves. And we would not exist without it. And we do not affect it indepdently, for we are controlled by it.

Arg, chicken and the egg. It's late, I'm tired, and my brain hurts.

[Aeson]

It depends on your definition of life of course. By lifeform I was just meaning any biological material in whatever form.

The key question is whether evolution exists as a natural force, or if it is just an effect of 'life'. I guess the same argument could be made for any of the physical laws of nature. Do they exist independant of the matter they act upon, or does the existance of matter bring them into being.

Yes, it's a chicken and the egg, sorry. I do like your everything is selfless argument though.

[Seeker]

This is what comes of not starting at the base of Descartes.

Everyone should try to craft the best personal philosophy they can from a starting point free of as many preconceptions as humanly possible, striving for total self-honesty.

For example, someone who says "I am a Kantian. Kant is essentially correct." I would not respect intellectually as much as someone who incorporates ideas of Kant (or whoever)into their personal philosophy/belief system.

No one should try buying a belief whole, out of the box, 'no assembly required'.

[Lorizael]

Oh no, I love philosophical arguments like this. But I'm running out of steam. I'll probably fall over in a few minutes.

And... you like my idea... whoa...

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Aeson


Are you talking about a passage in the Bible the phrase was in (or derived from)? It's a proverb isn't it? (really rusty on my Bible passages, so be kind if it isn't )

HELL NO!

"Moderation in all things" is actually an ancient Greek idea and summarises their philosophy of life

[Lorizael]

Don't have anything to add but...

Moderation in everything? That's an awful lot of moderation. Shouldn't moderation be moderated as well? Afterall, it isn't nothing.

[Aeson]

That's why it's deserving of the Lorizael.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Lorizael
Don't have anything to add but...

Moderation in everything? That's an awful lot of moderation. Shouldn't moderation be moderated as well? Afterall, it isn't nothing.

*horse mutters*

[Aeson]

Was there any Greek text which specifically coined the phrase "moderation in all things"? I can't seem to find a reference to it. Moderation is a prevailent theme in the Bible though, mostly applied to food and drink though. I guess moderation of some things would definitely not be in the Bible though (moderate respect for God being one).

[Alexander's Horse]

Its attributed to Aristotle.

[Aeson]

The golden mean of moderation?

I like Aristotle's ideas by the way (how's that for being daring ), though I can't really get involved in his writting because of the style. A lot of what I've been saying in this thread can be found in his writings.

[Alexander's Horse]

I think the biblical equivalent might be "fanatical in all things" - though Paul does pick up the moderation line. He, like most of his time including Jesus, was heavily influenced by Greek ideas.

[Seeker]

It's from Aristotle's discussion of the virtues.

It's a long list of virtues which have a spectrum, example 'courage' which runs from cowardice to rashness, one should pick the happy medium...

Of course Aristotle was either ignoring how subjective the proper 'level' is or was merely stating a commonplace.