Do YOU think the american democracy is dead?

[Grrr]

A lot of people recently have been argueing on other forums on how the american democracy has ceased to exist. How Bush seized his way in, and how with 911 it has no become a facist dictatorship.

What do you think.

[Kropotkin]

As I said before; I'm not an expert on the American system. But there's imho some grave faults with how it works that has deep roots.

To say that Bush has turned it into a dictatorship, however, is just absurd rhetorics. The american presidents have in at least modern times always had a lot of power, so do Bush as it seems.

[Sava]

It's still working the way it was meant to, although, you may argue that it is a flawed system because it is.

[Grrr]

Originally posted by Sava
It's still working the way it was meant to, although, you may argue that it is a flawed system because it is.

... ?

Elaborate.

[Sava]

I'm not sure which aspect of the government you are referring to. Bush hasn't done anything that isn't enumerated in the constitution to the executive branch. Remember, the terrorism bills that give the intellegence agencies more power went through Congress before Bush signed them. He didn't just make them law.

The flaws of the system are too many to list. Perhaps you should create another thread for that.

[Grrr]

I don't think Ming would be to happy with 2 troll threads on the topic.

[Sava]

This isn't a troll thread. The American government is flawed. I think even Ming will admit to that. I don't think that debating the power/abuses of the executive branch is trolling either. Politicians do it on a daily basis.

[Gatekeeper]

Grrr, et al.:

American democracy is not dead.

The last time I checked, I was still able to vote for a variety of candidates at the local, state and national levels. I am able to debate issues privately and in public without being carried off into the night by government thugs, never to be seen again. I am still able to buy a handgun, rifle or shotgun if I were interested in doing so. We do not have government censors in the newsroom where I work. The Internet isn't censored (ala China). I have hundreds of channels on television and radio that I can listen to, encompassing a wide spectrum of material. I can do my errands without having an unmarked government vehicle trail my every move. I haven't had rocks with threatening messages attached to them thrown through my windows. U.S. Army soldiers are still all-volunteer. And they haven't taken to calling themselves stormtroopers the last time I checked. Not a Brown Shirt in sight, either. Insofar as I can tell, the Senate and House in Washington, D.C., have yet to become rubber stamps for the presidency. People can still gather en masse in public to protest.

Admittedly, some of the developments in John Ashcroft's Justice Department have made me worry a wee bit. Some of the pronoucements by Vice President **** Cheney and Press Secretary Ari Fleischer have made me raise my eyebrows (particularly that crap about "watching what you say"). Some of President George "Dubya" Bush's pronouncements and vocabularly have made me wince.

Is it better to have a completely unfettered democracy that, because of its openness and faith in the individual, goes up in a mushroom cloud the next day? Or is it better to maintain democracy with a more pragmatic approach that, admittedly, can leave one eyeing our leaders in a keener fashion (which might be a *good* thing, IMHO)? It's one of those questions that has no easy answer and has been and always will be debated by those whose goverments allow them to do so.

Gatekeeper

[chequita guevara]

American republicanism is not dead. Our democratic traditions, however, are almost comatose. The people are disengaged from the process of self-governence, either because they just don't care, or because they don't feel they have an impact. Corporations more or less control the election process, the courts step in to ensure their favorite candidates get in, the parties are more concerned with winning than ensuring the integrity of the process.

However, voting still makes a difference (we get our choice of corporate vetted candidates), we still have the vast majority of our rights, even if they are slowly being eroded. And most places we have referendum laws, which give us the opportunity to try and take back control. There is hope.

In Maine, Arizona, and several other state, public financing of elections has passed, allowing cnadidates who eschew private financing over a certain level a goodly amount of money. In Maine, about 1/3rd of those elected weren't incumbants.

But let's not be complacent. We have a long way to go before we have a funtioning democratic republic again, and it could always gt worse.

[Giancarlo]

America is highly democratic compared to the countries I have lived in. You ever see a such apparent vote rigging? Goodness I was in Ecuador when provinces were having elections.

American democracy is far from dead. And probably won't die ever. Corporations are not in control of the election and a new financials reform bill are to prevent that. That bill sounds fine to me. The democratic rights are well preserved in America and won't disappear a bit even with the security step up after 9-11.

You can't kill the corporation to help the people as I usually say.

[red_jon]

Obviously the US is still a democracy to an extent, but many people over here feel that it is dissappearing, ever since the 2000 elections.

IMO it could get worse, but I don't see the US becoming a dictatorship anytime soon. It should get bettwe when the US falls under Democrat rule again (probably in 6 years time or so).

[Giancarlo]

It would get worse under a democrat in my honest opinion.

[chequita guevara]

I doubt it would be any worse under the Dems. They certainly don't respect democracy, hence their base abandoning them, but the Republicans have been actively attempting to thwart democracy. Both parties are thoroughly corrupt and need to be crushed.

[Giancarlo]

This is from a communist....

[Kropotkin]

Well, afterall quite a lot of right-winger salute the market reforms of the Democratic Peoples Republic of China.