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Bill of Rights trashed in "war" on terrorism

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Lincoln
    Paiktis, I don't see how technology can help much here.
    In fact that is just another avenue where the rights have been trashed.
    I was thinking in terms of reducement of "harasement" and trouble, if nothing else. For example one solid and secure ID number and hence no need for taking fingerprints etc.
    But yes you're right, technology can very well constitute just another base for further civil rights violation.

    Surely this guy would be found guilty in a court of law if the evidence is as the government says it is.
    This man can be held "for the duration of the conflict" without trial.
    Yes, I see...

    Well I'd imagine it depends on you, the people, to pressure your government on one way or the other.

    IMO the real danger is for governments to use the accusation of "terrorism" in order to control, unlawfully and unconstitutionally, persons who have nothing to do with terrorism but whose ideas are offensive to the government.

    OTOH, when you have the risk of a dirty bomb hanging over your head, you can very well agree not to defend those rights.

    If nothing else, your vigilance and concern in such matters, and others I'm sure, is propably the best way to try and ensure fairness. And is very encouraging.

    Comment

    • #17
      I am more for vigiliance, then some several thousand or perhaps million dead. Second guessing does not work in this situation so I stick with the President on this issue.
      For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

      Comment

      • #18
        --"IMO the real danger is for governments to use the accusation of "terrorism" in order to control, unlawfully and unconstitutionally,"

        I forget which bill/law/treaty it was exactly, but one of the recent ones defined "hackers" as terrorists... It's quite amazing what they've already got under that label.

        Edit:
        --"I am more for vigiliance,"

        He's already been caught. Locking him up indefinitely without a trial does nothing to increase vigilance.

        Wraith
        "Nobody move or everybody gets hurt!"
        -- The Tick

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        • #19
          Well I agree with what you said Paiktis. Except I am not for the I.D. thing. In any case, I think that America as we know it (or thought it was) is no more.

          Comment

          • #20
            Originally posted by Wraith
            --"IMO the real danger is for governments to use the accusation of "terrorism" in order to control, unlawfully and unconstitutionally,"

            I forget which bill/law/treaty it was exactly, but one of the recent ones defined "hackers" as terrorists... It's quite amazing what they've already got under that label.

            Edit:
            --"I am more for vigiliance,"

            He's already been caught. Locking him up indefinitely without a trial does nothing to increase vigilance.

            Wraith
            "Nobody move or everybody gets hurt!"
            -- The Tick
            Exactly. The label of "terrorist" seems to have no bounds.

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            • #21
              The US is still a free nation and democratic... but you have to be vigiliant. You cannot be second guessing the government as you are doing because there will be more Muhajirs and Attas entering the country to blow up bombs.
              For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

              Comment

              • #22
                Who defines what "terrorism" means Giancarlo?

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                • #23
                  More and more rights are going to be violated in the coming months and years, uness something is done to stop this 'war on terrorism'.

                  The only thing we are in any real dager from are our own governments.

                  It wouldn't come as any surprise to me if the US government had let the events of september 11 happen, to justify this new war.

                  Comment

                  • #24
                    --"The US is still a free nation and democratic.."

                    For varying values of "free" and "democratic" (the latter of which I find vaguely amusing to see people go on about, since we're a republic not a democracy).

                    --"You cannot be second guessing the government"

                    Yes I can. It's quite easy. Governments are never perfect. Never have been, never will be. Their idiocies are the prime reason we have the Muhajirs and Attas trying to blow us up in the first place.

                    Sorry, but I get really testy when the government insists it must infringe on rights in order to protect us from the dangers it created.

                    Wraith
                    "Necessity is the plea of every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
                    -- William Pitt

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Lincoln
                      Who defines what "terrorism" means Giancarlo?
                      Leave that to the Military and Intelligence Agencies.

                      Forget it... I realize I am arguing with a bunch of libertarians... sorry for even speaking...
                      For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

                      Comment

                      • #26
                        During any war, individual rights get put aside to a degree for the good of the whole.
                        This is an example.
                        Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                        "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                        He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Lincoln
                          I don't know. I think that something will be done about it. There are too many people here that can still see beyond the immediate crisis to roll over so quickly.
                          You're not cynical enough.

                          Exactly who is going to stand up for this man? A politician? It'd be career suicide.
                          "My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
                          "The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Giancarlo


                            Leave that to the Military and Intelligence Agencies.

                            What the hell? These are agencies you TRUST to make decisions for us?!

                            Comment

                            • #29
                              Originally posted by red_jon



                              What the hell? These are agencies you TRUST to make decisions for us?!
                              Most definitely. And you don't have to worry because you don't live in the US.

                              And I might end up working for one of those agencies.
                              For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

                              Comment

                              • #30
                                Originally posted by SlowwHand
                                During any war, individual rights get put aside to a degree for the good of the whole.
                                This is an example.
                                Good of the whole or for the current administration?

                                And this isn't a war. You cannot declare war on an abstract noun!

                                Comment

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