A Question for Creationists

[Bosh]

In what way would the world appear different if evolution was true? In other words, if you set two worlds side by side, one in which evolution took place and one in which "creation" took place how would you be able to tell that evolution took place in the one where it did and in what ways would this world differ from our own? Please be specific.

On the other side of the fence us "evilutionists" can think of quite a number of ways that the earth would look very different if creationism had indeed taken place. For example we have the fossil record and the light of stars that we know are quite a lot farther than 6000 light years away hitting the earth. This asymetry is quite striking if you look at the debate for a while as I have...

[Sprayber]

I thought this was Urban Ranger's signature thread?

[Bosh]

Well he'll be appearing shortly I should think
I'm not terribly good at the science of the issues like he is but I've done two research papers on the creationist movement so I can at least hold my own

[Aeson]

I'm not a creationist, but most of my family is. I've had this discussion with several family members several times, and will present their argument.

It is somewhat different than most creationist's claims. A lot of it is based off of writings by Joseph Smith, considered a prophet in the LDS (Mormon) religion. Joseph Smith supposedly was given revelation by God to translate the Bible back into it's original form. The Mormons use the standard King James version of the bible, with notations from Joseph Smith further explaining certain points.

One of the most important items is that the term used for creation in the Bible is better translated as organised. God didn't create the universe or matter, but rather had spiritual children and formed the earth (and countless others) so that his children could recieve physical bodies and perform the nessesary tasks to become like Him.

God is viewed as a being who has achieved perfection, but was once just like us, the offspring of another God, in an infinite progression backwards. The goal for members is continual progression until they too can achieve this perfection.

I'm not sure how much is actually LDS doctrine, but evolution (as a process, not theory) is supported by my family. They just view the whole process as organised by God. Ocham's razor would view this as unecessary, but doesn't actually disprove that it couldn't have happened. In effect, God is just added to scientific explaination. There really would be no percievable differences if it had been this way.

[red_jon]

Only Mormons go to heaven.

Do you live in a mormon area? Must be wierd. Not very religious in south east Blighty.

[Bosh]

There's a range of stances on evolution within the Mormon Church, although I think there's at least on creationist on the thingie that runs the church (its a handful of people, forget its name).

[Aeson]

Actually Mormons don't believe that they are the only ones who can go to heaven. They believe that everyone will be given the opportunity to accept Christ. Baptisms are done for just about everyone, in case those who died before getting that opportunity will later accept the religion. Also there is no Hell in the LDS doctrine, just 3 levels of salvation (all much better than life currently here on earth) and a special "outer darkness" that isn't really defined, but reserved for those who have a perfect understanding of Christ and still reject Him. There really isn't much about outer darkness, from what I've read it means a dissolution or death of the soul.

I live in Utah, and it is somewhat weird. I grew up going to church, and didn't really seperate myself from the religion until I was 19 or so. I have a lot in common from a moral standpoint with Mormons (and Christians in general) so it isn't a big culture shock. I do feel rather left out of the community to be honest, but that's not such a bad thing. I prefer to be somewhat of a loner anyways.

The worst part is dating, because I know that every good mormon girl is looking for a return mormon missionary, which I most decidedly am not! And being brought up with the morals I do have, a good mormon girl is what I'm looking for. It's a paradox, as to convince her to marry me would be to corrupt her and maker her other than what I'm looking for.

[Aeson]

There's a range of stances on evolution within the Mormon Church

That's definitely true. It's a highly subjective area, and the official LDS church doctrine doesn't cover it very extensively.

[Guynemer]

I knew a nice Mormon girl once... take my advice. Some of them are just bursting at the seems with sexuality... all it takes it just a little (and I do mean a little) patience.

[Aeson]

Yah, but the whole point is I want one who isn't that way... It's not a very helpful desire, but it's there.

[Lung]

This thread again!!

The creationists were beaten from pillar to post last time, so leave them alone!

[CapitanGarlic]

Hmm... I personally like to believe in both of them. I'm a practicing Christian, and believe that God created the Earth. I also believe that evolution has taken place, and continues to do so. Essentially: God created the world and then it evolved.

[Bosh]

CapitanGarlic: that = theistic evolution
mmmmm garlic, love the stuff just put huge amounts of it in the jamaican peas (ie beans) and rice I just made

[Sarxis]

Ughhh!!

[DaShi]

Re: A Question for Creationists

Originally posted by Zhu Yuanzhang
In what way would the world appear different if evolution was true? In other words, if you set two worlds side by side, one in which evolution took place and one in which "creation" took place how would you be able to tell that evolution took place in the one where it did and in what ways would this world differ from our own? Please be specific.

Well, the creationist world would be pretty simple. Just look out your window. Whoop!, there it is!.

Now, the evolutionist world simply wouldn't exist. One, even if random molecules came together to form some semblance of life, it would still the ability to reproduce. No DNA, or other information carrying molecules. Even if such molecules existed, the machinery to translate them randomly appearing and working efficiently to maintain life randomly appearing would be improbable. Then, of course, there is the soul. Or that intangible essence that we all carry that can not be identified, categorized, or analyzed by science. Such a thing does just randomly appear, and evolution gives no explaination for it.

On the other side of the fence us "evilutionists" can think of quite a number of ways that the earth would look very different if creationism had indeed taken place. For example we have the fossil record and the light of stars that we know are quite a lot farther than 6000 light years away hitting the earth. This asymetry is quite striking if you look at the debate for a while as I have...

The fossil record is accurate. The Bible speaks of a time before man. Of creatures that walked the Earth long before Eden, when the planet was vile and untamed. This is all under that fact, that although the Bible is translated now as the world being form in seven days, it is not really accurate. The 'days' may have been millions or billions of years. There is no exact way to tell. Though the seven is accurate and holds much significance in Judaism and Christianity. Of course, I think the time of the dinosaurs was before the Seven Days, but I'm not sure. It's been along time since I talked with anyone who believed this stuff.


Sorry, Zhu, I tried. I'm usually on the other end, but one must expand his horizons. Not to so blindly turn away the ideas of others because they seem absurd, but to look carefully at them. Try to understand the reasoning behind them and why they are so valuable to those who believe them. All people's ideas have merit in that they are thoughts of man themselves, true or not. Except communism, which is just a load of malarkey.