A Tribute to the Persecuted White, Hetero, Man

[SuperSneak]

Oh, that wasn't a troll, MF, it was a grown-up with a lot more exposure to poverty, discrimination and the reality of a paycheck and its limitations giving you a *****-slap upside your head and hoping you'll wake up and smell the coffee.
You need to see some **** before you talk it.

[Sarxis]

My mother went to school in Detroit in the '70s (she was white), and my bro-in-law went in the '90s (also white).

I don't think I need to tell you that there were problems.

[orange]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Okay, apparently I am going to have to explain this to you in terms that a four year-old could understand.

It is incorrect to say all urban schools are terrible.
Many American urban schools are terrible, as I said before.
Some urban schools are highly successful.
Are the urban schools all terrible in places such as Nashville or Seattle, or Atlanta?

Think before you write.

Exceptions to the rule, not the rule. And what exactly is your point by showing that Atlanta schools are more successful than Philadelphia schools? Only that African Americans are NOT that which should be given a boost, but rather, economic classes, as Atlanta is better off economically than Philadelphia, yet has about the same percentage of African Americans.

For someone who thinks he knows everything, alls you seem to do is prove that you know nothing.

[Kirnwaffen]

I think the bigger problem with the topics discussed in this thread is that by passing laws that deal with them, we are reinforcing the very concepts that we have been trying to eliminate.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by orange
Exceptions to the rule, not the rule. And what exactly is your point by showing that Atlanta schools are more successful than Philadelphia schools? Only that African Americans are NOT that which should be given a boost, but rather, economic classes, as Atlanta is better off economically than Philadelphia, yet has about the same percentage of African Americans.

For someone who thinks he knows everything, alls you seem to do is prove that you know nothing.

Can you not read? I never said that Atlanta schools were better than Philadelphia schools.

You're the one making the massive generalization that "urban schools are an absolute joke in America, half the people would be better off attending K-4 and then working for the rest of their lives."

So the question to you was whether the urban schools in say Atlanta, Nashville or Seattle are an "absolute joke."

And again, I'm sure we all agree that many urban schools are a joke, but to claim that all, or even the majority in the US, are sub-standard is an exaggeration.

Getting back to the original point, people have this mistaken belief that blacks can't get ahead because they don't get a proper education. While that is true in some cases, it is not true for all cases. So saying that education will eliminate racism is not true.

[spartak]

I was going to post in this thread but then I decided not to bother.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by GP
Tingkai,

your statement here: "Female fighter pilots have to be far above average just to be considered on par with mediocre male pilots."

You are talking out of your ass because you have no study evidence of this, nor are you a fighter pilot, nor have you ever spent much time with any.

I could go on to expose other silly things about your statements (implied idea that hand/eye coordination is the key aspect of being a fighter pilot rather than situational awareness, etc.) but I don't have the energy for that...

Toodle-oo, blowhard...

I never said that hand/eye coordination is the "key aspect" of being a fighter pilot. What I said was that hand/eye coordination is one of the most important requirements for modern air combat.
Read before you write.

Talk to female fighter pilots and ask them what they think they need to do their jobs. They'll likely tell you that they have to do twice as much work to get to the same level as male pilots. The reason for this is quite simple. Combat aviation is a predominately male organization. Women are not going receive the same type of slack given to other pilots (an yes, that slack is generally pretty slim to start with for fighter pilots).

As for physical fitness, a high level is required for fighter pilots, but pilots can get by with less muscle mass than an average combat soldier (who has to carry extremely heavy loads for extended periods). What is more important for pilots are mental abilities and reflexes. this is particularly true as fighter aircraft have evolved to the use of fly-by-wire, which reduces the physical stress of flying a jet.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Tingkai

And again, I'm sure we all agree that many urban schools are a joke, but to claim that all, or even the majority in the US, are sub-standard is an exaggeration.

The question is not whether all urban schools in america are sub-standard but whether the urban schools in cities with large black populations are substandard. The answer to that is yes. That doesnt mean that those children cant get an education, but it does mean that their chances of getting an education are lower, and their chances of getting an education that will gain them entrance to a decent university are lower still.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by SpencerH
The question is not whether all urban schools in america are sub-standard but whether the urban schools in cities with large black populations are substandard. The answer to that is yes. That doesnt mean that those children cant get an education, but it does mean that their chances of getting an education are lower, and their chances of getting an education that will gain them entrance to a decent university are lower still.

Yes, we've all agreed that the majority of urban schools are sub-standard. Any pupil in these, regardless of race, get a poor education. But to then assume that all blacks received apoor education and that improving this education level would eliminate racial barriers is incorrect.

Many blacks received a good education and achieve education levels on par with anyone else. But they face the racial prejudice that because they are black, they must be less educated (and a large part of that belief is based on the prejudice that blacks are naturally less intelligent than other races).

Simply increasing the education standard of urban schools will not eliminate these prejudices.

White folks like complaining about how they are being persecuted by AA which denies them a chance at a few jobs. But that is nothing compared to racism that denies blacks a chance at getting many jobs.

So AA is the lesser of two evils. Simply waiting for some miracle to change racial attitudes is not an acceptable solution because it infringes on more freedoms than AA.

[BunnyGrrl]

Originally posted by Kirnwaffen
And with AA, under-qualified minorities and women tend to get jobs that would otherwise be handed to a caucasion male who is qualified.

Why are minorities and women always underqualified in these arguments? What, are there just hordes of extremely overdeveloped white men hanging around unemployment agencies or something? i guess i wouldn't know since i'm too busy going to the jobs that i obviously took from them.

[Kirnwaffen]

Why are minorities and women always underqualified in these arguments?

I didn't mean to imply that women and minorities are always underqualified. My intention was to state that AA creates a situation in which an employer might be unwilling to turn down an underqualified female or minority applicant due to fear of punitive action.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Tingkai


I never said that hand/eye coordination is the "key aspect" of being a fighter pilot. What I said was that hand/eye coordination is one of the most important requirements for modern air combat.
Read before you write.

Talk to female fighter pilots and ask them what they think they need to do their jobs. They'll likely tell you that they have to do twice as much work to get to the same level as male pilots. The reason for this is quite simple. Combat aviation is a predominately male organization. Women are not going receive the same type of slack given to other pilots (an yes, that slack is generally pretty slim to start with for fighter pilots).

As for physical fitness, a high level is required for fighter pilots, but pilots can get by with less muscle mass than an average combat soldier (who has to carry extremely heavy loads for extended periods). What is more important for pilots are mental abilities and reflexes. this is particularly true as fighter aircraft have evolved to the use of fly-by-wire, which reduces the physical stress of flying a jet.

Tingkai, I've talked to way more fighter pilots than you have...please give your theorizing a rest. Playing Civ does not make you understand what it is like land an F-14 with an engine out...

[BunnyGrrl]

Originally posted by Kirnwaffen


I didn't mean to imply that women and minorities are always underqualified. My intention was to state that AA creates a situation in which an employer might be unwilling to turn down an underqualified female or minority applicant due to fear of punitive action.

What punitive action? From whom?

[Kirnwaffen]

They're afraid of being sued by organizations like NAACP and the government. The bad PR alone could put them out of business, or, in the case of the military, bring a congressional review.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Kirnwaffen


I didn't mean to imply that women and minorities are always underqualified. My intention was to state that AA creates a situation in which an employer might be unwilling to turn down an underqualified female or minority applicant due to fear of punitive action.

If this is as widespread as you claim it to be, then this is where AA needs reform -- not abolition.