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The USA is the only Democratic Country in the World. Discuss.

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  • The USA is the only Democratic Country in the World. Discuss.

    My answer: yes.

    Here's why:

    Lets compare the UK and the US. I think most European governments resemble the UK more than the United States so my critque applies to them too. Their sepperation of powers is extremely weak. They have the House of Lords, the Monarchy, and the House of Commons. Over the years power has beome consentrated solely in the hands of the House of Commons. This is dangerous because ultimately this is an absolutist system.

    If the House of Commons decides to cancel free speech who does one turn to protest...well the House of Commons. This one body is the end all and be all of British politics. Sure the MPs are elected by the people, but what if the majority decides to oppress the minority (it has been known to happen) then only a majority in Parliment is needed to make that happen. There are no proceedural safe-guards to stop it.

    In the United States however if the people get whipped up in a frenzy and congress passes some outrageous new law (....lets say the Patriot Act) then individuals can appeal the law to the Supreme Court and the Court can unbiasedly (we would hope) decide whether that new law is compatible with the Constitution or not. If it isn't then the law is thrown out.

    So a British style parlimentary system is much closer to "pure democracy" and thus very dangerous. In systems like this it is very easy for some populist demogauge to come along and get the people to vote in dictatorship. It is much harder to do in the United States.

    A pure democracy is dangerous because the full and ultimate power is the people. Whatever they vote on is law. Majority rule. The country could wake up on Tuesday and decide to make all Guns illegal. Then hold another vote on Thursday and change their mind. Next week a vote could be called and 51% of the population approves a system of enslaving the other 49%. This is pure democracy.

    I'd rather not live in a pure democracy like this.

    A constitutional republic (and terms vary) like the United States I believe is a more rational system. This system has in place an absolute law which is contained in the Constitution. This is (or ideally should be) the ultimate arbitrer in running the government. There are sacred rights that are very difficult to overturn on a whim like in a pure democracy. Also our system has the incredibly important system of checks and balances and seppertion of powers. These are integral to the stability of our system and I am amazed more countries don't have it.

    Not only is the UK autocratic because it only has one body which makes decisions, that one body isn't very democratic. The executive in this system is the Prime Minister, Tony Blair in this case. He is in charge of enforcing the law and in most cases he and his cabinet proposes most of the law as well. Between 85% and 97% of what the Prime Minister wants the Prime Minister gets. This my friends is nearly a dictatorship. Why is this?

    It is because of the pluarlist (is that right?) system in the UK. Rather than voters voting for an individual candidate they vote for a political party. So the party apperatus decides who gets to be the canidates, and surprise surprize the party picks those people who are the most likely to follow the directions of the party leadership and least likely to think and vote independently.

    Now lets say there is an election and Labour gets 51% of the vote (if that would happen), well until the next election the Labour party has a dictatorship over the country. 51% of the MPs are in Labour, and all those MPs were hand picked because they are least likely to disagree with the party leader. Who is the party leader? Well its Tony Blair. (I sure hope i didn't mix up party names) Who does the House of Commons pick for Prime Minister? Well with 51% of the vote, the Labour party picks Tony Blair. So if Tony Blair decides he wants to propose law A, well the very loyal 51% of the parliment votes to approve law A.

    I have heard stats that said that around 97% of all laws proposed by Margaret Thatcher were passed into law. Can you imagine that? A dictatorship can be defined as one person making 100% of decisions. In the UK "democracy" one person can make up to 97% of decisions. How the frick is this any different?

    Can you imagine 97% of every single piece of legislation proposed by George W. Bush becoming law? That'd be insane!

    Now i've only used the UK as my example, because I don't know much else about other "democracies". I think France's cohabitation system is promising, but they are thinking about doing away with it now, ugh. But I'd wager most European governments are similar to the UK model, and most of them aren't much better than tyrannies of the majority, and popularly elected dictators.

    Remember folks, democracy is something more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
    Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012

    When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - Rah

  • #2
    Somebody seems to have forgotten about Canada as usual.
    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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    • #3
      It's your stealth nation technology that shields notwithstandingland from most people.
      I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
      For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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      • #4
        I would agree.

        THe US system is much more efficient and less autocratic in terms of Domestic agenda, no country could even come close to the balanced representation. But in terms of war policy, the president is the supreme general and gets what they want. When was the last time Congress proteseted a direct military action that the president supported and stopped the war? But I wouldn't live in any other country in this wide world,
        "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
        - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Asher
          Somebody seems to have forgotten about Canada as usual.
          I admit, I am completely ignorant of the Canadian system of government (and many others). If it is an American system it gets two thumbs up from me. If its a British system, then its not all that great.
          Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012

          When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - Rah

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Asher
            Somebody seems to have forgotten about Canada as usual.
            It's a natural mistake.
            "I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by OzzyKP
              I admit, I am completely ignorant of the Canadian system of government (and many others). If it is an American system it gets two thumbs up from me. If its a British system, then its not all that great.
              Canada takes the worst parts from both the British and American governments and melds them together, in a typical Canadian fashion.
              "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
              Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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              • #8
                That is awfully long-winded for a troll.

                Tell us how wonderful the US's checks and balances would have worked if one Vermont Senator had not pushed the balance to the Democrats in the Senate and Rehnquist (73), Stevens (81) and O'Connor (71) all retire from the supreme court or simply die after a long stressful life?

                Republican President, Republican Senate, Republican House and Strict Constructionist Supreme Court. Pretty much free reign to do as Bush pleases until the Republicans lose an election.
                What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?

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                • #9
                  Re: The USA is the only Democratic Country in the World. Discuss.

                  Originally posted by OzzyKP
                  So a British style parlimentary system is much closer to "pure democracy" and thus very dangerous. In systems like this it is very easy for some populist demogauge to come along and get the people to vote in dictatorship. It is much harder to do in the United States.
                  How does being closer to "pure democracy" equate to not being democratic?

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                  • #10
                    Its Fair

                    For one party to sweep the election and have friendly justices is rare and as Zell Miller, Lincoln Chaffee, and Jim Jeffords voting with your party does not happen all the time. And also the British system where the House of Commons ensures that it is Autocratic.
                    "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
                    - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Echinda
                      That is awfully long-winded for a troll.

                      Tell us how wonderful the US's checks and balances would have worked if one Vermont Senator had not pushed the balance to the Democrats in the Senate and Rehnquist (73), Stevens (81) and O'Connor (71) all retire from the supreme court or simply die after a long stressful life?

                      Republican President, Republican Senate, Republican House and Strict Constructionist Supreme Court. Pretty much free reign to do as Bush pleases until the Republicans lose an election.
                      No, because the Republicans aren't one entity. A Republican Congressmen and Bush might not neccesarily agree. Even it situations historically where one party controlled all institutions of government, there are still often disagreements. In Britain on the other hand, party discipline is much stricter and the PM has a huge amount of authority.
                      "I'm moving to the Left" - Lancer

                      "I imagine the neighbors on your right are estatic." - Slowwhand

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Echinda
                        Republican President, Republican Senate, Republican House and Strict Constructionist Supreme Court. Pretty much free reign to do as Bush pleases until the Republicans lose an election.
                        To be honest this would be close to a political parties worst nightmare. Everything bad that happened until the next election would sit squarely on their shoulders, no way to shrug off the blame. This is probably the ultimate set of checks and balances in our political system.

                        Of course if everything went perfectly then there is no problem right?

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                        • #13
                          First, this is a double post from another thread. Tsk.

                          Second, you contradict yourself. You say the US is the only true Democracy, then point out it isn't a true Democracy. Huh?

                          The United States is not a Democracy, it's a representative Republic. There are no truly Democratic nations, as true Democracy cannot exist effectively outside of the city-state environment.

                          Now, is the US the best representative Republic? Debatable, but I think, in the long run, no. I think the hinderances built into the system to meaningful change except through extreme measures will ultimately lead to our stagnation and then decline.
                          Tutto nel mondo è burla

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                          • #14
                            Discuss what? It's blatantly wrong. Ignorance of all things non-american is the usual inspiration for grandiose american claims

                            In Australia, an entire governmnet was dismissed by their own appointee in the position of Governor-General. So much for no other country having a separation of powers

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
                              No, because the Republicans aren't one entity. A Republican Congressmen and Bush might not neccesarily agree. Even it situations historically where one party controlled all institutions of government, there are still often disagreements. In Britain on the other hand, party discipline is much stricter and the PM has a huge amount of authority.
                              The Labour party isn't one entity either. The Chancellor of the Exchequer has his eyes firmly set on the PM's spot on the front bench in the commons. If Blair started acting funny, out come the knives and Blair is a political corpse. Remember, a Prime Minister is not elected to that position. He is merely an MP with the best ministerial portfolio. His own party can take him down. Just look at how Blair's right hand man faired when he started to get uppity. Even Blair couldn't save him from political disaster. The UK system has its own checks and balances that work pretty well, they're just more organic than the US system. And that is one of their strengths.
                              What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?

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