more guns because there is more crime, more crime because there are more guns?

[TCO]

What is it now, 4th, 5th or 6th republic you all are on, now?

Originally posted by Adalbertus

Of course, America is immune to barbarism.

We have more of the hunter/killer instinct in barbarism, but have more experience with self-reliance and democracy. Free farmers as opposed to peasants and serfs. This is why we have both more bloodthirsty customs but more stable government.

[Wraith]

--"is not the fact that there is hunting guns in their home, but the fact they can get handguns and rifles ?"

Handguns and rifles are hunting weapons. Rifles for big game, shotguns for birds, handguns for small game and to protect against snakes.

--"And if a handgun costs 3,000 dollars on the black market"

Many guns used in crimes are stolen, not purchased (black market or otherwise).

--"I can imagine the police would be in favor of disarming the populace to make their jobs safer."

My father is a police officer, and he certainly is not in favor of this. Most duty officers are not, in fact. The only police that seem, as a group, to be in favor of gun control laws is police chiefs, which is more a political position than anything.
Duty officers understand they can not be everywhere and see everything all the time.

--"the reason they did this was to avoid a civilian uprise."

You don't think late-stage Rome could have really used a nice civilian uprising? Can't say things like the gladiator games were exactly signs of a great benevolent government.

--"Doesn't NY have pretty stiff gun control laws?"

NY city, last time I checked, had a total handgun ban, as does D.C. Interesting thing is that many citizens are either ignoring the ban or finding alternative, like carrying a can of oven cleaner (short-range spray in the face is a lot more effective than mace).

--"Make guns illegal for anyone under the age of 30.. That would take care of the gangs etc."

Yes, because gangs are obviously the law-obiding group, right?

--"But is their definition of violent theft the same as ours?"

This is why international comparisons are difficult.

--"That was my point, Wraith."

How can it possibly be that we agree? In a gun-control thread? Something must be wrong.

Wraith
Any mental functions attempted in this area must be re-evaluated during a subsequent period. It has been discovered that standard logic works sideways in this area due to the influence of the occupant.

[orange]

Originally posted by faded glory
Guns save thousands of peoples lives everyday. Wether it be an old lady who fires in the air to scare off a robber. Or a 7-11 clerk who blasts a mofo with a knife over a ladies neck.

The best part is that you ACTUALLY believe this!!

[faded glory]

Che, your wrong. Weapons are shipped in like any others, ordered up by ruthless gangs and drugdealers. They dont have runners that go texas and bring back guns. Your still restricted to federal background checks. Sorry, I would like to a source. To point the finger at texas just seems so politically, like you.

Oh and my bet with the Tech9 stands. If you want, we can get together in Chicago. I could probably prove it. Any street hustler or drug dealer will sell you a cheap firearm. Not from texas, but generally they come from oversea's purchases off the blackmarket.

[TCO]

Tech 9's cost more than that. That's more like what you can sell one to a dealer for. But to buy one, it's alot more...

[Az]

Tec-9 ? could someone post me a pic?

[David Floyd]

http://www.impactsites2000.com/site3/class3_10.htm

[Ned]

As Roman Empire aged, the Emperors became increasingly autocratic and unrestrained by any deference to elected authority or to the Senate. They (Valens, who also brought us Andrianople) banned the private ownership of weapons precisely to prevent revolt in the face of tyranny. I can hardly believe that advocates of gun control can cite Valens actions in a favorable light.

[Az]

thanks , DF. looks like a fusion of a pistol, an Ingram , and .. something else , though. ( visually , of course )

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by orange


The best part is that you ACTUALLY believe this!!

Why is it funny? It's true.

[Sava]

Originally posted by DinoDoc


Why is it funny? It's true.

Sure it is, just like there's a pink unicorn that lives behind our moon!

[Akka]

Originally posted by DinoDoc


Why is it funny? It's true.

Half of the fun comes from the ridiculousness of the statement. The other half comes from the fact that you don't see anything ridiculous in it.

[David Floyd]

Many studies have reported that guns are used to prevent crimes in 600,000-2.5 million instances in a given year. These studies have been done by criminologists, not doctors, who are wholly unqualified to do such studies.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Many studies have reported that guns are used to prevent crimes in 600,000-2.5 million instances in a given year. These studies have been done by criminologists, not doctors, who are wholly unqualified to do such studies.

Oh, are we going to discuss Kleck's work again? You mean the study which predicted over 100,000 woundings/year resulting from "DGU" (defensive gun use)? Or was it 200,000? I forget, but we can take a little peak at the data again and find out. Nevertheless, if you wanted to find a study that was flawed by serious internal inconsistency, Kleck's work would be an excellent choice. And how does he explain it all? Black market physicians are hiding a massive epidemic of unreported gun woundings. I wonder, where does Cletus go to find one of them black market doctors when he gets shot while climbing over someone's fence? Do you reckon they're listed in the Yellow Pages?

[faded glory]

WHy is it untrue mr orange? You do know that happens alot in America??????