German Emperor Wilhelm II planned attack on the United States

[Ecthy]

Unbelievable this thread gets more attention than the WWII one

[Akka]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
Unbelievable this thread gets more attention than the WWII one

What's unbelievable is that Lonestar seems to REALLY believe in what he's actually saying

[Saint Marcus]

Not Professional, huh? Embyronic? I guess that collection of old buildings on the Hudson river that have been training Officers since 1802 don't count for nothin'?

The American army was extremely small at the time. And Germany is a tad more powerful than Spain, to say the least. Plus, Germany was ahead in the tech race at that time.

[Dom Pedro II]

The American army of 1900 was NOT the American army of 1865. After the Civil War, the army was almost entirely dismantled. Even in the Spanish American War, the army was pretty small, and the Americans lost something like 5,000 men from crappy gear,supplies, and food poisoning as well as disease. Proportional to the army, those losses were embarressing, and Teddy tried to put an end to the purchasing of such shoddy merchandise, but how do you think an American invasion force would have faired in Germany in 1900 with no blankets, tents, good boots, etc?

Furthermore, the American Civil War is as close to an exception as you get. While the U.S. army did "occupy" the South during Reconstruction, the whole point of the war had been to bring the rebelling states back into the Union. Had it been a war with another sovereign state, they wouldn't have done it.

Occupation of another country and total war were just extremely infrequent in that day and age.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus

Plus, Germany was ahead in the tech race at that time.

Maybe they would be a real danger to launch a spaceship first...

[Dr Strangelove]

Would it help if I point out one more time that this was supposed to be an all navy show on the part of the Germans? Therefore comparing armies is rather futile. Furthermore there wasn't any plan for sustained involvement, the attacks were to be handled raid style. Heck, the Germans could have tried this on any nation, even Britain, and have gotten out with their fleet intact at least the first time.

But while we're on the subject of armies, does anyone know how many troops were raised during the Spanish-American War? Wouldn't those troops have been available on short notice?

[Dom Pedro II]

Dr. Strangelove : You're absolutely right. Unfortunately, the American jingoists wanted the United States to march into Berlin and so the army got dragged into the conflict. I wouldn't expect it to be more than a naval war.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus


The American army was extremely small at the time. And Germany is a tad more powerful than Spain, to say the least. Plus, Germany was ahead in the tech race at that time.

I'd like to remind everyone here that the army was much larger than the pre-Civil War Army was. Especialy you, Dom Pedro ::Shakes fist::. :P


Anyway, while I'm far, far, too lazy to look up exact numbers, we had thousands of soldiers, specifically, thousands of soldiers looking for "gooks" in the Phillippines. Absolutely astonishing that that word would come back and be used to describe the VC lo those many years later....

EDIT: Seems to be about 11,000 soldiers in the Phillippines circa 1900. Most were volunteers for the Spanish-American war, so the majority of the Professional Army would still be in the continental states. Call it 30,000 soldiers (probaly more) in the contienental states at the time.


Course, all this hinges on the Germans moving the hundreds of thousands across the Atlantic (a) in secret (following mobilization) and (b) without the USN doing it's damndest to stop it.

Anywho, as it's been pointed out many times, the German plan seemed to be "Bombard NYC and Boston, and the Yankees will call it quits."

[TCO]

Well...the US got in the action in 1917 and we saw who won that one.

Wasn't the Germans (despite what Hitler wrote...)

[Dom Pedro II]

It may very well have been larger than PRE-Civil War numbers, but not POST-Civil War numbers.

Anyway, I'm not saying the U.S. would get whooped, I'm saying an invasion by either country is not feasible.

[kittenOFchaos]

Again it would depend on the German goal in the war...

The main objective for Germany in any US/Germany war in 1900 A.D would be to gain American markets internationally and perhaps force trade concessions from the USA and preferential access to the US market.

The question would be if Germany could prevent the American navy interfering with German commerce and at the same time cripple American commerce.


Britain would be all important...as in the American Civil War when Confederate Commerce raiders ruined the Union's Merchant Marine the merchant marine America used to trade with Europe was British.

If Germany blockaged US ports then they would provoke war with Britain if they prevented British trade with America (which could just go via Canada).


The USA was a major client for Britain and to think the British would sit back and let the Germans screw that up is in my opinion foolish. However in reverse the British would not mind Germany being removed from the world markets as she was challenging British commerce in China, Africa, N.America and S.America by stealing markets with their "better" manufactured goods.



To attack the USA, Germany would have a negative affect on British trade...for Britain to fight Germany she could steal many German markets in the USA and abroad and have help in preventing the German Navy threating the Royal Navy. If you contemplate a US/German war then you have to take into consideration the British will be with the Americans!

[Faeelin]

They'd lose.

Thousands of miles of supply lines across the ocean. They couldn't even take RUSSIA!

America had the world's largest merchant marine. how long it would it take to turn these over to battleships.

Also, american ships of the time outgunned germans by about 3 to 1. (This is a true fact).

No coaling stations nearby for the Brits. The USA, on the other hand, has the entire coastline to draw from.

France will probably get involved, which will draw in Russia.

Britain might get involved as well, to make sure those two don't carve up germany.

[Saint Marcus]

Well...the US got in the action in 1917 and we saw who won that one.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but US presence didn't really make a dramatic impact in the war. France and Britain could have defeated Germany all by themselves, though it would probably have taken some extra months. Please don't go saying that the Americans won WW1, that's really a joke.

And I believe the American (and all allied forces in France) were under French command, were they not? (not sure about this, can someone confirm/deny this).

[Akka]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus


Sorry to burst your bubble, but US presence didn't really make a dramatic impact in the war. France and Britain could have defeated Germany all by themselves, though it would probably have taken some extra months. Please don't go saying that the Americans won WW1, that's really a joke.

And I believe the American (and all allied forces in France) were under French command, were they not? (not sure about this, can someone confirm/deny this).

They were. It was the maréchal Foch that was in command of the whole allied forces.
I think that the war would have lasted a little more than "some months" would the Americans were not involved. Probably one or two years more, time for the last allies of Germany to collapse and the last ressources to exhaust. Americans helped a lot. But it's still true that Germany would eventually loose.

[Akka]

Originally posted by Faeelin
Also, american ships of the time outgunned germans by about 3 to 1. (This is a true fact).

Show me your true fact. As German's fleet was just a bit less powerful than the English one in 1914, I seriously doubt that American ships were that much better than German ones.
I ask for evidences.