War vs. Iraq - Ousting Saddam?

[Carver]

Chegitz, so what's the one government?

[Jon Miller]

(I think Cuba??)

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by David Floyd
To you, someone who is pro-freedom is an enemy of the "working class", unless he supports freedom ONLY for the "working class".

Because those who claim to be pro-freedom are only pro-freedom for one particular class, regardless of what they say. If they are not for the worker's freedom, then they are in favor of limiting the workers to protect the freedoms of another class. The only class that must exist is the working class. All other classes are suplerflous. Therefore, being for the freedom of another class is necessarily being opposed to the freedom of all, while being for the freedom of the working class is being for the freedom of all, since all can be workers.

David Floyd, Jon Miller, let's move this whole argument to another thread.

Carver, Jon Miller is correct, I am refering to Cuba.

[David Floyd]

Because those who claim to be pro-freedom are only pro-freedom for one particular class, regardless of what they say. If they are not for the worker's freedom, then they are in favor of limiting the workers to protect the freedoms of another class.

Incorrect. Supporting property rights does not deny rights to anyone - there is no right to have a certain amount of property, or a certain standard of living, but simply a right to own property and work to better yourself.

[chequita guevara]

Let's not thread-jack this, okay.

[David Floyd]

OK.

[Jon Miller]

where is this thread

Jon Miller

[David Floyd]

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=917171#post917171

[Promethus]

Chegitz

Try reading The Mystery of Capital by Hernando De Soto. It just might change your world view.

Anyone else read this book? Should I start a new thred about it?

[David Floyd]

I've heard of it, never read it.

[Shi Huangdi]

"Scott Ritter, "former chief U.N. weapons inspector in Iraq says Saddam's weapons of mass destruction are largely disarmed, the "Iraqi threat" is built on a framework of lies and President Bush has betrayed the American people."

Your article mentions he resigned in 1998. Considering all the resistance put up by Saddam to the inspections and his shown will to have them, I think it would be pretty reasonable to assume he has it. In fact, I saw on the news before that he may be trying to develop weaponized smallpox.

"He hasn't done any such thing for eleven years now."

Even still, considering how he has used them, he can not be trusted to have it, particularly some of the more dangerous bio weapons he may have.

"Somolia, Yugoslavia, and Afganistan"

I don't think Somolia was worth the intervention, but that was a humanitarian mission. Yugoslavia was over human rights abuses, and Afghanistan you yourself admitted we had a valid causus belli.

"Why do people think that Hussein is insane?"

Because he is. And even if he wouldn't use it against the US, he could well use it against a US ally such as Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, or Israel.

"Furthermore, Iraq, horrible as it is, is one of the more progressive states of the Middle East."

It is an evil dictatorship that has plundered the country's resouces in a corrupt manner and taken the resources for him and his family.

"None are democracies."

Bosnia is. http://www.britannica.com/eb/article...2673#42673.toc'

An agreement negotiated in Dayton, Ohio, U.S., in November 1995 established Bosnia and Herzegovina as a state composed of two largely autonomous entities, the Serb Republic and the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina. The latter is a decentralized federation of Croats and Bosniacs. Each entity has its own legislature and president. The central institutions of Bosnia and Herzegovina include a directly elected tripartite presidency with one Bosniac, one Serb, and one Croat member. The presidency appoints a multiethnic Council of Ministers with one Bosniac and one Serb cochairman, rotating weekly, and one Croat vice-chairman. The parliament is bicameral. Members are directly elected to the 42-seat lower house (House of Representatives), in which 28 seats are reserved for the federation and 14 for the Serb Republic. Members of the upper house (the House of Peoples, with five members from each ethnic group) are chosen by the entity parliaments.

"Kosovo,"

The country which administer the largest peacekeeping zone is Great Britain, not the USA. The PK presence is neccesary to prevent further massacres, and I think the Kosovars perfer NATO peacekeepers to Milosevich.

"Yugoslavia is till being starved, even though it gave up Milosovic,"

Yugoslavia recieves western aid.

"Hell, the last thing the US wants in the Middle East is an Arab democracy"

It doesn't seem to have a problem with Kuwait which has an elected parliament, and I think one of the Gulf States has an elected parliament or is calling elections soon.....

"Power move around. If the US is able to smash the Iraqi state with no opposition, it will become that much more powerful,"

Most Americans support the USA, and want it to be powerful.

"Argentina, where workers are mobilizing in self-defense."

Where Che hypocritically defended the ouster of the democratic De La Rua government but decried the damage to democracy in Venezuela when Carmona took power.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by David Floyd
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...171#post917171

I think we need a new thread

jon Miller

[Promethus]

David Floyd

Read this book. It supports your vuew of why property ownership is so important to the "common man".

[David Floyd]

Hmmm, OK maybe I will...